Cayman GT4: Where are we up 2 now? Déjà vu Edition

[ralphmusic]

Contrary to what I think will happen, I've just been told by my OPC that it's going to be late 2019 until we see the GT4 and Spyder. That could tie in with a Geneva release like the last one.

However, it doesn't allow the Clubsport to race in the 2019 season unless homologation has already happened and the road car release will be after the race car. Not sure if that's possible or not.

VLN have one homologation, IMSA another based on FIA, SRO/FIA another, and PCNA run GT4 Club championships.

DeMan raced a Cayman S with manual gearbox and otherwise GT4 Clubsport parts including engine in 2016 Roar, I think road/race homologation not as tightly linked as one might think. The reasons they built that car was they didn't want braking to be constrained by ABS/PDK electronics integration, were able to run at a higher top speed on the banking than Clubsports which couldn't get out of 5th gear, and they benefitted from a 100lb lower weight limit under an IMSA ruling.

It may well be that Porsche have shown a road car to IMSA and committed to road car launch some time in the 2019 season. Remember Porsche have form on homologation with the 917 and 911 GT1 Straßenversion.

 

[Twinfan]

Thanks Ralph, that's what I'm wondering - homologation rules often get bent after discussions. I wonder what the delay is, I can only assume it's GPF filter and NA engine related otherwise the car would have been launched by now.

 

[ralphmusic]

Thanks Ralph, that's what I'm wondering - homologation rules often get bent after discussions. I wonder what the delay is, I can only assume it's GPF filter and NA engine related otherwise the car would have been launched by now.

Not sure about bent, there is a waiver process as organisers need to fill grids to have successful series, and in any event all series are BoP 'handicap races' so it matters less. From a manufacturer view point, the current GT car series are much better than silhouette series of old. A couple of years ago before manufacturers started taking GT4 seriously, there was a version of the 997 GT3 Cup car homologated for SRO's GT4 series.

TuV Sud have inplant testing facilities at manufacturers' main locations and if you look at it from a Porsche planning standpoint, road car certification for high volume 992 has a much higher priority (and being turbo is easier) than a GT4 normally aspirated road car. I also think the timing of final engine type selection to the X51 3.8L probably meant that the design was finalised when all efforts were focused on the 992.

Incidentally, I saw a post on rennlist 992 section that 'quoted' a senior Porsche source as saying that a GPF is fitted to EU and China market vehicles only. I am not sure I believe that given California's preoccupation with emissions and Porsche's damaged reputation by association with diesels.

 

[Twinfan]

I doubted that comment too, surely it's easier to have the same production for all markets if you can - especially given the focus on emissions these days.

Apologies for the "bent rules" comment, I didn't mean to imply any wrongdoing!

 

[Steve Brookes]

Thanks Ralph, that's what I'm wondering - homologation rules often get bent after discussions. I wonder what the delay is, I can only assume it's GPF filter and NA engine related otherwise the car would have been launched by now.

And maybe that's because they've found through their testing that the NA engine with the GPF fitted is struggling to match the performance of the latest 718gts GPF fitted cars that will soon be delivered. And that would never do for the new GT4! One thing's for sure after hearing that it could be late next year before it arrives, I'm glad I decided to buy the original early this year rather than hold out for the new one (especially as I guess I would be low on the list for an allocation).

 

[Twinfan]

The Speedster is the car to watch by the sound of it, as it'll be the first NA car with GPF to be released. We should then know what the impact of the filter is on Porsche NA engines.

 

[ralphmusic]

And maybe that's because they've found through their testing that the NA engine with the GPF fitted is struggling to match the performance of the latest 718gts GPF fitted cars that will soon be delivered. And that would never do for the new GT4! One thing's for sure after hearing that it could be late next year before it arrives, I'm glad I decided to buy the original early this year rather than hold out for the new one (especially as I guess I would be low on the list for an allocation).

Steve,

The soon to come 992 GTS is going to trouble GT3s. It will always be the case from now on with NA v turbo, and your old stager will soon be slower than the hairdresser's Boxster

Ralph

 

[Chris95]

They seem to be getting themselves into trouble all way way from now. The 992S does 0-60 in 3.5 secs with Chrono. Thats 0.9secs faster than the GT4 and 0.4 faster than the (NA) 991GT3. Heavens, its only 0.3 under a GT3RS which must be where a new GTS will end up on this basis.

How are they going to sell the new GT(NA) cars if slower than cheaper non GT turbo cars.

 

[Deanoc123]

They seem to be getting themselves into trouble all way way from now. The 992S does 0-60 in 3.5 secs with Chrono. Thats 0.9secs faster than the GT4 and 0.4 faster than the (NA) 991GT3. Heavens, its only 0.3 under a GT3RS which must be where a new GTS will end up on this basis.

How are they going to sell the new GT(NA) cars if slower than cheaper non GT turbo cars.

I guess because 0-60 is not the be all and end all and other factors effect performance just as much. Plus 992 GT cars will be turbo.

 

[Twinfan]

A 992 GT3 mule has been spied testing and it's definitely NA.

 

[Motorhead]

Who cares Chris?

Other than for pub bragging rights I reckon that performance figures have become academic. Few, if any of us would be prepared to drive our cars in the manner used by manufacturers and journos to achieve performance figures; and that's assuming we could find somewhere to do it in the first place other than at a licenced test facility.

Surely the way the car feels and sounds is much more important to the average owner?

Jeff

 

[Deanoc123]

A 992 GT3 mule has been spied testing and it's definitely NA.

Live in hope as that will knock 991 prices so I might be able to get into one

 

[Chris95]

I think you're right. Maybe they should start taking a leaf out of the old RR/Bentley book and stop quoting numbers. Q. How fast/powerful is it. A. Fast enough.

 

[ralphmusic]

Manthey will be at the Essen Motor Show (hall 3, stand 3A11) from Friday (preview day): Among the exhibits at the Porsche Motorsport and Manthey-Racing stand will be the Nordschleife record-breaking Porsche 911 GT2 RS with MR Performance Kit and the Porsche 911 GT3 Cup MR.

No GT4 Clubsport then?

 

[ralphmusic]

Clubsport launch January 3rd at Daytona, according to some but likely to be true

 

[Motorhead]

That would be the very latest date for any announcement Ralph.

But would the teams be running that car in the race, and if so it would mean Porsche giving them the car well in advance? - i.e. NOW.

Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Apparently what happened last time, delivery just before the 2016 race - announcement different schedule though

 

[Twinfan]

Yep, the road car was launched well before the Clubsport last time.

Lots of conflicting info knocking about, I would have thought we'd have some concrete rumours by now!

 

[Brian_Innes]

Who cares Chris?

Other than for pub bragging rights I reckon that performance figures have become academic. Few, if any of us would be prepared to drive our cars in the manner used by manufacturers and journos to achieve performance figures; and that's assuming we could find somewhere to do it in the first place other than at a licenced test facility.

Surely the way the car feels and sounds is much more important to the average owner?

Jeff

Reading in Autocar mag tis week that the new 992 Carrera 4S PDK apparently does 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. This is seriously into GT Porsche RS territory and makes me wonder where Porsche are going with this.

As Jeff has pointed out, standing start times are only a small part of the story. They are mainly for headline publicity and have little bearing on how a car feels on the road or track.

The new 992 is a bulky thing being even wider than the current turbo-bodied 991. Parking spaces are going to be an even tighter fit for 992 owners assuming that is, there is enough space to get the doors open. I would guess very few 992 owners will be taking their £100k's worth to track days. Even then, it will be a tiny minority who have the experience and track driving driving skills to pilot their cars anywhere near the current track pace of 981 GT4's, 991 GT3's, or even 718 GTS's.

The new 982 GT4 needs to be designed principally as a keen driver's dream car. Dynamic chassis handling, balance, and braking are rated more than 0-60 times for the keen driver. The new GT4 will however need to post a 0-60 time beginning with a 3 to earn its place in the GT hierarchy, if only for reasons of publicity. I would agree with those who are wondering if the launch delay is comparative performance related. According to the technical data I've received, my new 2019 GPF 718 Cayman GTS PDK has the power and torque tweaked to compensate for the GPF fitment.

The new GT4 needs to be more than simply quicker to 0-60. It needs fully adjustable suspension, lightweight panels, and superior braking to appeal to the knowledgable track day owner. This is a niche car after all is said and done.

I await developments with great interest.

Brian

 

[ralphmusic]

and on race series:

Creventic will launch a class dedicated exclusively to the Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport, having announced the formation of the Cayman GT4 Trophy for 2019.

The Dutch organization has entered into an agreement with Manthey Racing for use of the category in its 24H Series races, beginning with January’s Hankook 24 Hours of Dubai.

The Cayman GT4 Trophy will run to the same technical regulations as in VLN, with the exception of the series’ spec Hankook tire. Only the Type 981 GT4 Clubsport will initially be allowed, and not the German manufacturer’s yet-to-be-launched new-generation GT4 machine.

“We are confident, this new class in the Creventic 24H Series, will become be successful and widen the racing opportunities of our customers,” said Manthey Racing’s Thomas Raquet.

Creventic’s Gerrie Willems added: “After the success of the Porsche 991 class in our 24H Series, we thank Manthey Racing for their extended trust in our organization and series.”

An entry fee of €8,600, including roundtrip sea-freight transport from Europe, is being offered to Cayman GT4 Trophy teams for Dubai.

Source: sportscar365.com