Cayman GT4: Where are we up to now?

DuncGT4 · Mar 29, 2016

I have pccb on mine and also had them on my GTS, first off my gt4 had to have them, why?, well I much prefer the look, the lack of dust plus they don't go rusty. As for the way they work against standard discs I can't say, but can't see that givern the size of the discs as standard fitted to the gt4 the brakes are going to give any problems in the first place, but did see a guy having to change his discs after only a few 1000 miles due to track use and the standard discs had worn out.

But in the end you pay your money and take your pick easy really.

Motorhead · Mar 29, 2016

MrDemon said:
On another note I have bought another Cayman R, I think (THIS IS NOT A FACT !!! ) the R is a better road car with more feel and more fun at normal speeds which you can use more of the time, So back in the R club for me.

A car which WOULD benefit the PCCB option IMHO of course !!!

Welcome back to the 987.2 Cayman fold D.

An interesting choice given that you've already got two track-oriented cars. How will you decide which one to use when and where?

Jeff

MrDemon · Mar 29, 2016

None are track cars imo.

R is my new daily run about, Spyder is for sunny fun days out neither will see tracks, GT4 is er well, a garage queen a posers run about for me lol but the car I will take to PCGB track day in May.

the CCB thing is interesting, what Chris W does not state is his were shot at 30k miles (all 4, love to know track miles) and he knows how to look after them, my fronts are just about shot at 13k miles(and I do 2 cool down laps and 3 track days a year so very little use) and my quote today was £8.5k for just 2 fronts.

Goto Renlist and the guys tracking CCB braked cars have ALL switched to steels, they just Oxidize !!!

If you track a CCB car you have to have deep pockets or an account with sitcom and still deep pockets( I bet the 420mm CCB will be >6k to refurb) , I hope the GT4 new design CCB last for the guys who ordered them as £18k for 4 will be quite a cost if you ruin them.

lets look at none track cars, a 911 turbo S owner were nackered in 12k miles of road use !

[link=http://jimmy348.blogspot.co.uk/]http://jimmy348.blogspot.co.uk/[/link]

due to rear braking ie PTV some thing the GT4 now has !!! There is nothing you can do about wearing out rear disks !!!

CCB disks are NOT for track use imo, any plus points is gone the minute you wear them out or over heat them, I don't count looks and no dust as plus points at that cost ! and once you see dust on CCB they are nackered imo they are dust free when new, wipe your finger over a used CCB and if you get dust on your finger they are just about shot or you have started the oxidize process.

track days are funny things, you get red flags etc etc so you cannot always do 2 cooling down laps, I have seen the latest and greatest 991 RS come into the pits with all 4 CCB smoking like hell !!! NOT only once, the 2nd time he came in they were all smoking like *** again !!!

Road car only+ keeper PCCB are worth a look in,

Resale, track or a CS spec car, I think one would have to really want no dust to spend 8% of the value of your car on them new . or 50% of the cars 2nd hand value for a used R !

This is all my own opinion though, but having now got a bill for £8.5k for 2 new fronts at some point, or a circa £3k refurb cost the fun as gone out of them for me , I'll prob switch my CCB on my Spyder to steels now and save the life left in my CCB for resale org fitment while they still look ok ish !! :-(

As for buying a 2nd hand CS /PCCB car 3 years down the line, not a chance if it were me.

I would buy a 2nd hand R with PCCB at the same value ie no up cost, just to get the 4 bigger calipers and fit some Brembo CCB iron replacments.

ralphmusic · Mar 29, 2016

David,

It could be helpful to post your track day experiences on the Track Day section of the forum where we might get contributions on PCCB longevity on track from others using them v iron discs.

Ralph

DuncGT4 · Mar 29, 2016

Having done some reading on guys tracking gt3's with carbon disc's, I don't think I will be having any problems as it looks like the new disc's fitted these days are much longer lasting than the 1st and 2nd generation ones from Porsche and guys that have done 40 plus track days and road miles are reporting that there disc's have plenty of life still and would hope that it's the same disc's fitted to the GT4 as the GT3's

CarreraGTS · Mar 29, 2016

I see early Dyno figures on Gt4's are showing 415 Bhp ... for cars with less than 2k miles as well ... Happy Days - don't you just love Andreus P ...

flat6 · Mar 30, 2016

The debates about ceramic vs iron discs is always worth a read. It seems it comes down to why you'd buy them. All I conclude for myself is that they're pretty much an unpalatable option when a) the car has depreciated to a point where the brakes are a disproportionate value of the car to replace and b) given that scenario, if your driving level isn't going benefit from them.

Then there's the fragility. By fragility I mean, in theory, a drive over a very loose surface could throw up a stone and chip them. I have caught a stone in my brakes twice and the noise is horrendous such is the force generated against the components it's wedged against. But driving a few meters in reverse has cleared it and away I go. It sounds like from what I read, that could give me a 4 figure bill with ceramics. I just want to drive my Porsche wherever I happen to end up and not worry about one of the components nearest the worst abuse a car is exposed to, be the most susceptible to it.

If people who track their car are getting more track joy out of replacing their ceramic discs with iron or if its vice versa, then you've really got to go for whichever gives you the best track smiles per mile. Then as has been said, PTV takes away some of your control as to how much abuse you give your brakes. So there's lots of things to consider (or not to consider and just buy ceramics and then possibly reconsider for next time when you receive your first bill, which I guess is why you have people swapping them out to have more smiles per track mile).

So at the end of the day, it's really about whether the person buying them has no quibbles with the cost of running them should the need arise to replace them. There's no doubt some who know they wont be keeping the car long enough or doing the miles enough to worry about it, but may not admit that they're unpalatable even to themself should they be keeping the car long enough. High performance parts are not designed primarily to be durable, nothing new there. So you pays yours money and takes your choice.

As has been said, they're no doubt getting better in terms of durability with each new iteration, so that skews the argument based on experiences from different eras and indeed my personal choice is based on the age of car i'd be buying if it had them (The car I have now, the pretty much twin car came up before this one but with the ceramic brakes, I passed it over. The cost of replacement should they ever need it - and I am planning long term ownership - was too high a percentage of the value of the car. Then the almost same car came up at almost the same price and but without ceramics. But whilst I was getting less used car for my money vs its list price, I snapped it up as the better value car long term).

So keep the brakes discussion going guys as its always interesting to hear opinions based on experiences.

MrDemon · Mar 30, 2016

CarreraGTS said:
I see early Dyno figures on Gt4's are showing 415 Bhp ... for cars with less than 2k miles as well ... Happy Days - don't you just love Andreus P ...

where ? I have only seen tuned cars giving out that figure.

ralphmusic · Mar 30, 2016

Two Clubsports available in UK at £156k inc VAT each

[link=https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/73829/porsche-cayman-gt4-clubsport---brand-new-x-2]https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/73829/porsche-cayman-gt4-clubsport---brand-new-x-2[/link]

Does anyone drive GT4's or just collect them?

Mclovin · Mar 30, 2016

I don't normally post in the forum but thought I'd wade into the PCCB debate. I didn't specify them on my build config and I was actually quite concerned about that until I went on my Porsche experience day and all of the instructors told me I did the right thing. Having had the car for a few months I have to say I'm absolutely thrilled with the performance of the steel brakes and I love the fact that the red callipers contrast so well against the sapphire blue and tie in with the red rear lenses. If I was going to track the car constantly then I think I would have leant towards PCCBs, but on a road car that will do the occasional track day I think the steels are spot-on.

spyderman · Mar 30, 2016

ralphmusic said:
Two Clubsports available in UK at £156k inc VAT each

Again - stupid money - especially given the restricted series you can race them in (very welcome in Britcar, though). You could easily pick up a 991 Cup for that.

Motorhead · Mar 30, 2016

Thanks for posting Luke and welcome to the forum. All comments are much appreciated.

That's a great picture BTW.

Jeff

MrDemon · Mar 30, 2016

Well got the R home today, I still think it's more fun than my GT4, but hay ho, really happy with it.

matthewlatter · Mar 30, 2016

Fun is going slower then.

CarreraGTS · Mar 30, 2016

MrDemon said:
Well got the R home today, I still think it's more fun than my GT4, but hay ho, really happy with it.

Nice car Mr D - Did you sell the Audi TT - seams strange to have a GT4, CR and a Speedster so much money with very little differences in dynamics - you should have got a 911 GTS or a CSL instead

... I don't get this whole GT4 is too fast as a road car thing ... I would say its perfect, you get differing ways of ploughing down a B road - either in 4th and using the torque or quick shifting and enjoying the buzz of the Rifle gear shift and Sports blipping. In my Humble opinion the Gt4 is more a B road Sunday car than a Track car - the suspension is so forgiving, the turn in and brakes are incredible and in truth you actually think your going really quick whereas in truth when you look at the speedo your only doing 70 in a 60 which is hardly a hanus crime ... The Gt4 was voted Car of the year for exactly those reasons - the Gt4 is a legendary Porsche already, with Cult status - very rare in a brand new Porsche and talked about more than GT3 RS and on the front cover of every car magazine and every Performance group test, its the Benchmark ... I love it - is it worth £110K no, but i would rather have it than a 997Gen2 GT3 or 991 GT3 for similar money any day... Its just so small and pliable and seams to bend three dimensionally round corners!

MrDemon · Mar 31, 2016

matthewlatter said:
Fun is going slower then.

Yes as it happens, to quote drivers car of the year 2011 "the winning Cayman R’s steering as “about as sweet as it gets,”

"seams strange to have a GT4, CR and a Speedster" I feel very happy about it

"you should have got a 911 GTS or a CSL instead

" had both(well gt3 and CSL) ! like mid engines more.

"I don't get this whole GT4 is too fast as a road car thing" you will in time ;-)

"using the torque or quick shifting and enjoying the buzz of the Rifle gear shift and Sports blipping" not really into torque and sports blipping !

I think you might be shocked if you had a go in my Spyder, you will have to try it one day.

Motorhead · Mar 31, 2016

D,

I sympathise with your comment that the GT4 is too fast as a road car but I suppose the same can be said of any car with 300hp+ .....or even a 200hp hot hatch for that matter. These days it's very difficult to make use of the full performance, except on track.

Even in comparatively rural North Beds I find driving my Cayman rather frustrating due to occasional slow moving local traffic, farm traffic, cyclists, horse riders, walkers, speed cameras (my relatively small village has 4 sets of average speed cameras..!), etc., such that I rarely exceed the national speed limits. I sometimes wonder if I wouldn't be better off purchasing the most basic Caterham for its low speed thrills..!

Enjoy driving your 3 Porsches - whichever one you choose to drive on the day. I presume that the TT has now gone.

Jeff

MrDemon · Mar 31, 2016

lol it's a bit crazy having a choice of mid engine porkers, but they all offer something.

CarreraGTS · Mar 31, 2016

MrDemon said:
matthewlatter said:

Fun is going slower then.

Click to expand...

Yes as it happens, to quote drivers car of the year 2011 "the winning Cayman R’s steering as “about as sweet as it gets,”

"seams strange to have a GT4, CR and a Speedster" I feel very happy about it

"you should have got a 911 GTS or a CSL instead " had both(well gt3 and CSL) ! like mid engines more.

"I don't get this whole GT4 is too fast as a road car thing" you will in time ;-)

"using the torque or quick shifting and enjoying the buzz of the Rifle gear shift and Sports blipping" not really into torque and sports blipping !

I think you might be shocked if you had a go in my Spyder, you will have to try it one day.

Mr D ... I was thinking about getting a Speedster this week funnily enough but the reality is it would just sit in the garage gathering dust whilst the GT4 was out scaring small children ... If i didn't have the Gt4 i would definitely get a Speedster but at £40k thats 1M Money and a much better fun car, saying that i have never driven a Speedster so hopefully will get a chance this year ... Andrew

ChrisW · Mar 31, 2016

I think it's funny that they have to quote £130k + vat each .... !

SICOM --- I have championed them ever since I finished off my PCCB's at Spa last year. I've never hidden the fact or the 34k miles that I'd done, and that's the reason why I've gone for PCCB's again. I have no fear of destroying them (if I do) --- the refurbs looked as good as new and came with a 12 month 10,000 mile warranty for known hard trackday use (better than Porsche) --- and I reckon that I would have spent more on multiple sets of steels so ??

As an aside to the R discussion --- my garage now includes a Mk4 MX5 2.0 for all the family --- and a dip back into Mezger with a low mileage 2007 GT3 Clubsport with perfect ---- PCCB's. Manual, five stud wheels, half cage, carbon buckets, narrow bodied, mezger engined --- as powerful as the RS (at twice the price) and as light as a 911R. Go figure

My first 997GT3 ... Life is a journey !