Cayman GT4: Where are we up to now?

Laurence Gibbs · Feb 20, 2015

Just to bring a sideways view on all things GT4. I wonder how many People would order a Cayman Gt4 over a 911 GT4 ? Now i know i am on a Cayman forum. But there are a number of us from different camps lurking on this thread. If Porsche built both (Cayman & 911)with the same spec and price point (unlikely I know) I would go for the 911 . I wonder how many of the 911 owners on this thread would be the same? And given they have fitted 90% of a 911 engine, vitually all the GT3 front end , a rear end devoid of steering gimmicks , GT3 brakes, i am wondering why they can't actually build one ! Bean counters i guess !

Adam2S · Feb 20, 2015

repost of what I posted on PH a bit earlier : I think the reality is that we have all been through a huge recession over the last 10years and memories are really short term! Boom and bust is the way of the world in what is what appears to be a 20yr cycle. The GT allocation is what it is and is, and largely what it has always been in the long term. The recent recession has distorted the availability of GT cars over the last few years, thus GT cars have been somewhat more available for us mere mortals than they really would be in a stable world order! Suddenly the economy in the UK looks rosy and people look back with emerald eyes on the benefits bestowed to those lucky enough to have secured a 991GT3 in the last 18mths and they want a piece of the action! The profiteering of GT3 slots and resale is fueling in the UK/USA what has very quickly revealed itself as the very corrupt and rather ugly side of capitalism (don't worry I am as right wing as they get). The situation in the rest of Europe is not the same at all largely due to the EURO, and thus an apparent disparity has revealed itself. I think that PAG (perhaps being at the very heart of the EURO) along with the German Gov has misjudged the situation especially the recent Greek election somewhat, but who could have really foreseen this turn of events? I question the motives of a few of the posters on some of the forums. Let's imagine a scenario where the supply/economy/whatever was in a different place and time, and you were faced with almost certain depreciation on the purchase of your GT4 despite how good it might be to drive! How many of you would still want a GT4 so badly that you would be willing to email the CEO of PAG worldwide! [8|] If you could not / would not imagine such a situation then quite frankly you are not the GT customer PAG are aiming for right now. Don't cry expecting any mercy from them! I am just saying that the world is different place to where it has been over the last few years, and in fact we all need to accept that Porsche is once again finding its feet again in the world of order of "the elite". Some of us mortals have touched this space over the last dip cycle, but make no mistake we do not belong here. We are championship players in a premiership world, and as distasteful as it is to swallow this, it is a fact! Suck it up boys and girls and embrace it for what it is and enjoy the good times for what they were whilst they lasted. The genuine elite are back in town and they have multiplied and we are not amongst them. Some of us just "are" and some of us just "are not" - it is Darwinian! Signing off, after a few vino's on a Friday evening. [8D]

MrDemon · Feb 21, 2015

ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs Just to bring a sideways view on all things GT4. I wonder how many People would order a Cayman Gt4 over a 911 GT4 ? Now i know i am on a Cayman forum. But there are a number of us from different camps lurking on this thread. If Porsche built both (Cayman & 911)with the same spec and price point (unlikely I know) I would go for the 911 . I wonder how many of the 911 owners on this thread would be the same? And given they have fitted 90% of a 911 engine, vitually all the GT3 front end , a rear end devoid of steering gimmicks , GT3 brakes, i am wondering why they can't actually build one ! Bean counters i guess !

Er because that's a GT3 ! I don't think any buyers of the GT4. Would go for the 911 shape, we are all mid engine fan boys here

ralphmusic · Feb 21, 2015

I've swapped my GT4 PDK LoI for a GT3RS.. Link to Euro spec sheet and order guide (ex Ferrarichat...via way of Rennlist and Pistonheads) below http://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/991-gt3/913203d1424470815-consolidated-991rs-thread-serienausstattung-991-gt3-rs-my-g.pdf If I can't get one I shall complain to Autocar

CLIFFWILKINS · Feb 21, 2015

I stand by what I have said in my previous post and yes i think 400 could be sold without a problem over the next year or 2. Opc do have 20 deposits I know that for a fact from 2 or 3 OPCs and they only have 20 as they are refusing to take any more letters of intent or deposits for the first batch, Spare a thought for people who have not been lucky enough at present . So why not meet the demand of customers who want a GT4 and not just the lucky ones who have there allocation. [

] PS agree with Chris nice write up Geoff. Cheers Cliff.

MrDemon · Feb 21, 2015

ORIGINAL: CLIFFWILKINS I stand by what I have said in my previous post and yes i think 400 could be sold without a problem over the next year or 2. Opc do have 20 depositsÂ Â I know that for a fact from 2 or 3 OPCs and they only have 20 as they are refusing to take any more letters of intentÂ or deposits for the first batch, Spare a thought for people who have not been lucky enough at present . So why not meet the demand of customers who want a GT4 and not just the lucky ones who have there allocation. [] PS agree with Chris nice write up Geoff. Cheers Cliff.

have you seen the RS spec sheet, 4.0 500bhp about 65 cars that is the rare one, why not make 400 of those ?

MrDemon · Feb 22, 2015

ORIGINAL: geoff lane Mr D Sorry I cannot agree people have different reasons for wanting to own a particular car. I own a GT3RS and I am very far from rich I stretched myself to buy the car nearly 2 years ago and I have been very lucky and could sell it today for a lot more than I paid for it. When I bought it (on a lot of finance) I hoped it would not loose much in value but mainly because I wanted to drive it which I have in the last 18months I have covered over 7K miles in a weekend car, its been to Le Mans, on a PCGB France tour and several club weekends. I have driven it because it is fantastic to drive but my thinking had always been if the GT4 is a manual then I would look at capitalizing on my luck to help pay off the mortgage while still having a proper drivers car. I have tried PDK and while its very good its not for me for a weekend car. I waited for the car to be announced having spoken to my OPC who said they had a number of LOI's but if PDK was not offered then a lot would withdraw. When it was announced the situation became very different which as you have said previously was my fault and only mine. However now I want a GT4 and would even pay over the odds (probably not a lot) to get a slot because it suits my particular situation. I am not taking my car on track which I always wanted to do because of the 10% excess and the value my car now stands at, my track days are in my sons Exige (Silverstone 10th March) and I'm also limiting my road mileage to protect the cars value. This is not a winge just an explanation to show that Porsche owners have very different reasons for wanting to get into a GT4. I have also bought mainly second hand but my 2nd Boxster was a new purchase and if I am lucky enough to find a way into a GT4 it will be used both on the road and on track. Just my view on the current situation and if Porsche satisfied demand then I also would be a happy bunny. Geoff

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-997/porsche-911-gt3-rs-low-miles-front-lifting/3727727 I would be selling up if you are scared to track it, you could pay 10K over on a GT4 and still have hugh profit margin, ie a Free Gt4 ! not a bad place to be

fbr · Feb 24, 2015

ORIGINAL: MrDemon

ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs Just to bring a sideways view on all things GT4. I wonder how many People would order a Cayman Gt4 over a 911 GT4 ? Now i know i am on a Cayman forum. But there are a number of us from different camps lurking on this thread. If Porsche built both (Cayman & 911)with the same spec and price point (unlikely I know) I would go for the 911 . I wonder how many of the 911 owners on this thread would be the same? And given they have fitted 90% of a 911 engine, vitually all the GT3 front end , a rear end devoid of steering gimmicks , GT3 brakes, i am wondering why they can't actually build one ! Bean counters i guess !

Click to expand...

Er because that's a GT3 ! I don't think any buyers of the GT4. Would go for the 911 shape, we are all mid engine fan boys here

I suppose rotating the engine and gearbox around the rear axle gives a mid-engined derivative albeit with a distinct rearward weighted bias. It does rather overlook that the compromised rear suspension of the Boxster/Cayman derivatives is not a patch on that of the 911. The difference in shape is mere window dressing

.

Motorhead · Feb 24, 2015

Frank, I'm with MrD in not understanding the point Laurence was trying to make. Personally, I think that hanging the engine out the back on the 911 compromises the handling more than having a mid-engined car with strut-type rear suspension rather than the 911's multi-link set-up. OK, so a strut layout has it's drawbacks but it's simple and effective. Colin Chapman pioneered the use of struts as a rear suspension device so it must have something going for it, although tyres were of course much narrower in the good old days, so camber change probably was not such an issue then. Jeff

Laurence Gibbs · Feb 24, 2015

Ok, i will try again [

] i think the question was posed at current 911 owners ! IF the choice was offered between a Carrera S powered 911 with the Gt4 spec running gear except for the rear which is different between platforms, do away with the clever GIZMo rear wheel steering of the GT3 keep things simple. GT4 interior trim spec, so no rear seats. At the same price point as the Cayman GT4, the main difference being the shell and gearbox. Is the shell really that much more? A GT4 spec 911 if you will . Or would you choose the "NON COMPROMISED"[

] CaymanGT4

flat6 · Feb 24, 2015

It doesn't seem an unreasonable question. 911 GT2 was based on the GT2 category 911 GT3 is based on the GT3 category A 911 based on the GT4 category at around Carrera S / GTS level performance but more track focused may have strong appeal.

spyderman · Feb 24, 2015

997 GT3 Cups already run in GT4 (in British GT for example). They have to change the hubs to studs and use an intake restricter to reduce the power. The kit costs a small fortune. It's rare you see cars to this spec listed for sale. Chris.

Laurence Gibbs · Feb 24, 2015

To clarify , in this instance I am taking GT4 spec to mean the specification that is applied to the Cayman GT4 to create a Cayman GT4. Rather than the FIA interpretation of the GT4 class. Although there may be little difference . I don't know?

spyderman · Feb 25, 2015

Some more photos of the PROsport-built (ie: not Porsche-built) GT4 that's to race in the GT4 European Series this season. The build seems to be progressing very quickly! http://gt4series.com/prosport-performance-to-enter-gt4-european-series-with-porsche-981-cayman-sp/ Note the PDK shifter! I'm still amazed by this! Hope they've swapped its operation to be the "right" way for a race car! Here's the spec for a 997 Cup running in GT4 in the same series: http://gt4series.com/cars/porsche-911-gt4/

Motorhead · Feb 25, 2015

I get your point now Laurence - an interesting concept but unlikely to happen I'm afraid given Porsche marketing's insistence on maintaining a significant financial gap between its rear and mid-engined cars - and I suppose that the GT3's rear spring, damper and ARB arrangement could be adapted for a 991 GT4 without rear wheel steering. A 981 GT4's mid-engine balance versus the 991 GT4's traction out of the corners? I guess we'll never know how that would pan out but I'd like to see a Cayman GT4 versus 991S back-to-back test....over to Autocar, Evo, Porsche Post[?], etc. Given the level of commonality between the two product lines - leaving aside the BIWs, really it's only the gearbox and rear suspension that differentiate them - it's not hard to see where the profit margins lie [Â£15,000 per car average as at March 2014]. Jeff

Motorhead · Feb 25, 2015

Chris, Interesting to see that the PROsport car will be homologated with PDK rather than the manual 'box of the Cayman GT4; presumably a dispensation from the regulators. With a quoted 385 hp power output, they've either tuned-up the standard 3.4L or installed a detuned 3.8L from the 991S. Any idea which? I would think that the driver would use the paddle shifts rather than the centre stick for gearchanging. Doesn't the GT3 stick operate the right way - push to change down; pull to change up? It looks as though they've grafted on the 991 GT3 front PU. No sign of the GT4 side air-scoops though. With a 30 hp power deficit, I'll wait to see how the Cayman's performance compares with that of the 997 GT4. It should prove to be an interesting Series. Jeff

ralphmusic · Feb 25, 2015

From pff.de last night.. "Porsche Cayman GT4 Allocations Update Today, 12:48 PM We are hearing that Porsche Cars North America sent an email to the dealers regarding the Cayman GT4 allocations: As an update, the Cayman GT4 allocation will be run once final production numbers are confirmed, sometime at the end of February or first of March. This is good news as we requested additional product and it is being reviewed. I will inform you once confirmed. As a note, 125x 918 Spyder customers have raised their hands for a GT4 from the VIP program.This sounds like Porsche AG is evaluating the increased demand on the Cayman GT4 and we may get an increase in the production run thus allocations for the United States market."

flat6 · Feb 25, 2015

Digressing from Laurence's question, and I admit I don't have any knowledge of what is needed to go racing in GT4 - is Porsche supplying a car that can go straight into GT4 racing e.g. buy the Clubsport package (and whatever else package from Porsche that is needed to go racing), change the tyres and away you go? Or does someone need to rely on a third party (or themselves) to take the factory offering up to race ready spec? The other road cars with racing-class names are not (as I understand it) race cars. I.e. the 911 GT3 road car is not a race car. It is a tribute to the race car and if you are going GT3 racing you buy the GT3 Cup car or whatever GT3 racing car variant for the racing you are entering (e.g. GT3 RSR etc etc.). Likewise the road-going GT2 was a tribute to what would have been the GT2 race car. So is there going to be a Cayman GT4 race car from the factory or not?

Motorhead · Feb 25, 2015

6, I thought that R&D Chief Wolfgang Hatz indicated a little while ago that there could well be a Porsche-supported presence in the GT4 Race Series, but we may have to wait a little while to see if the Motorsport Dept. have the time and resources to achieve this. I suspect that it would take the form of support for customer cars, at least in the first instance. The Clubsport package could form the basis of the package, although a full roll-cage would be required for racing, the hard-points for which I think have been included in the BIW according to Andreas Preuninger in his Evo interview on the GT4. Jeff