Forum upgrade

[944Scott]

Funny how most of the complaints are from guests not members. I wonder how many of these people walk into a friends lounge and go "I don't like it."

Personally I'm a bit bored of the subject now. We have what we have. There are going to be tweaks and things will change.

A forum is like a Pub. Sit down, drink your beer and join in the conversations. Have you nothing better to discuss than the decor?

And as for

.....Here's hoping TIPEC doesn't have an "upgrade"

[]

Interesting comment, for me its all about the forum, yes I am a guest and was about to become a fully paid up member however the new layout as put me off. I will still pop in to see if "the décor" has changed but for now I will be spending most of my time over on ITV.

 

[Fred Hindle]

IMHO the change to the forum would have been an ideal time to remove all the guests and make them re-register but with only one month's access. Bit draconian but the number of guests is high.

Cheers,

 

[John Sims]

Is an observation any less worthy or valid from a guest than a member?....

Yes. Because the members pay for the forum out of their subscription. (The forum software licence and hosting, before some further snide comment that people aren't doing what they are paid for)

Yes. Because it is members who are developing the forum in their spare time for the benefit of the members and the wider Porsche community.

Yes. Because it is members who moderate and administer the forum.

Yes. Because it is the members who are subsidising Guests enjoyment of the forum.

I'm sorry Richard, I am not meaning to rant at you personally. I made my position clear some pages ago - either say something nice, say something in a considerate and constructive manner, or say nothing.

 

[John Sims]

IMHO the change to the forum would have been an ideal time to remove all the guests and make them re-register but with only one month's access. Bit draconian but the number of guests is high.

Cheers,

I'll be honest Fred, I've fought hard to keep the forum (or many of the areas) open to all because of its ability to market the Club and gain members. But when you have Guests who have contributed to the forum for years saying "I was going to join but I'm not now because I don't like the new forum" you wonder why they hadn't joined last year, or the year before, or the year before that?

A forum is a place of discussion and ours would be a much poorer place if it were to become elitist. There are those (often form other countries) who contribute with knowledgeable and valuable insight which would diminish the value of the forum for all without their input.

This isn't meant to be an exclusive Club House but I have, on many occasions previously, suggested the Guests should show appropriate respect to their hosts.

 

[Andy97]

What a very strange and very nasty response.

PJMcNulty made it clear in the very first post on this thread that non members were still welcome. Doesn't seem to be the case.

How many members have started off as guests and then joined? How many valuable and interesting posts have been written by non members that have helped or stimulated everyone And added value?

The attitude displayed here is aggressive and uncalled for, and if that is the attitude of a representative of the club then I think the club should consider whether the correct impression and representation of it is being provided.

 

[golfprorich]

Is an observation any less worthy or valid from a guest than a member?....

Yes. Because the members pay for the forum out of their subscription. (The forum software licence and hosting, before some further snide comment that people aren't doing what they are paid for)

Yes. Because it is members who are developing the forum in their spare time for the benefit of the members and the wider Porsche community.

Yes. Because it is members who moderate and administer the forum.

Yes. Because it is the members who are subsidising Guests enjoyment of the forum.

I'm sorry Richard, I am not meaning to rant at you personally. I made my position clear some pages ago - either say something nice, say something in a considerate and constructive manner, or say nothing.

You seem to have a coporate agenda and a contradicting personal one.

I only became a Porsche owner since the beginning of the year so haven't being loitering around for years as a mere 'guest.' I have joined other clubs and their forums as a paid up member for other interests of mine and have no issue in doing so if its somewhere I want to be. Your quoted post has done nothing to encourage me to join this club, especially the last few words.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Andy, it's frustrating so please take John's comments in context. []

For a start there's prety much no point in posting comments about the forum look or functionality on the forum. There's a dedicated support team waiting to help and advise, and to listen to criticism and improve things where possible.

I must admit I get frustrated when I have to repeatedly post the support@porscheclubgb.com address for the umpteenth time, but that's the only place for comments and questions if you want them to be dealt with.

The guest/member thing has been done to death. The thousands of non-members are very welcome here, in fact it wouldn't work without you all. I do feel differently on forums where I'm a free guest personally, but most of those sites are so full of intrusive adverts I kind of feel I'm paying for the site anyway!

So. Pull up a chair, pour yourselves a cup of tea, have one of our nice biscuits, and join the chat: Club member or not. If you have a comment on the technicalities of the updated forum, or need any help with something that you can't get to work properly, there is a dedicated contact point for that. I won't repeat the email address....

 

[Andy97]

Paul, I appreciate it's frustrating but aggressive, rude and insulting remarks from moderators serve no purpose except to alienate people.

i thought that the opening post about the forum upgrade almost invited feedback, and 11 pages since implies that several others thought so too. I would also have thought that one of the roles of a moderator would be to pass on feedback.

As for the member vs non member debate, I really appreciate that non members can contribute. I am a member of 4 existing clubs and it's not easy to justify being a member of them all. I have been a member of PCGB twice before but not now, probably because my interests are fairly narrow now in the racing side of things, but not actually PCGB racing as I view that to be way too expensive for the ordinary club level racer, sadly.

The 944 forum is one of the most popular in the club, and I hope that remains the case, but visually this upgrade is very poor and the attitudes expressed by some above, inc moderators, are beyond the pale.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi Andy,

I largely agree with you. I guess a problem is that very few of the moderators actually do anything! There just aren't the number of active mods in order to pass all the feedback on, and with so many different comments in different threads it's also impossible for the team to read and monitor everything. When I say "team", aside from a couple of staff members it's all volunteers, most with full-time jobs.

It would be so much more helpful if everyone contacted support. That way they'd get help with problems, and there would be more of a clear pattern around what's not working, what we could improve etc.

I do feel it's also good to post comments so others see, but there's the danger that hundreds of people think "my problem has been covered, so I won't raise it", and the team have no idea that hundreds of users have an issue!

Get those messages to the support address as it's all helping. []

 

[Fred Hindle]

I wasn't being 'elitist' (and those who know me would struggle to say I was in anyway). It was more the in the hope that more people would actually join the club after having seen what it has to offer.

Cheers,

 

[tscaptain]

Is an observation any less worthy or valid from a guest than a member? Maybe more 'guests' would be inclined to join if the forum was more appealling.....

Surely the club's website is it's shop window and the forum a side attraction. I wouldn't see it as a decisive factor in whether to join or not. Each to their own, I guess.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I think there's a massive point to be made here.

The forum isn't the Club? It is a collection of people who have a passion for the cars specifically, often only one or two models, whereas a car Club is often more about the social side. It's about combined knowledge and experience, technical help, but it's not about being a shop window for membership.

The majority here aren't members. If there's a specific Club discussion then it is usually in the members-only area anyway. The model forums such as the 944 area are for 944 owners to come together and help each other, not to somehow force them in to Club membership by trial free periods or separate forum charges. The forum is cheap as chips to maintain (when regularly updated of course []), so there's no burden on the Club for members to "subsidise" non-members. Likewise, there's no reason to turn it into a spam-fest with loads of adverts to generate income.

If you want to join a car Club then it can't be simply down to discounts, insurance deals or forums. It has to be because you want to be in a car Club! The website is now starting to show the many benefits, and membership should be free for most with the deals you can get, but the forum is, as Alan put it so well, a side attraction. It's not got anything to do with Porsche themselves, within the forum rules of course. Even within the Club it's a place we can get outside the little "cliques" that develop sometimes. It should be subversive, irreverant and challenging. It must, however, avoid becoming a place where people only come to complain: direct contact is always better for that, be it a dealer problem, supplier mistakes, or forum problems.

Let's not throw our toys out of our prams over a software update? I don't like changes to many other forums I use, and I hate Windows 8 and am going to struggle on with 7 until it breaks. I really miss my Nokia on Symbian but it's been shut down so I have to get over it and move on. IT is fast-moving and we have to keep up.

People have worked really hard on this project and contended with some massive underlying issues. As I read through this thread it's clear, easy to read and a nice place to be. I don't like some things like the home page or the forum listing, but it's not the end of the world and I have suggested changes if they are possible. They are a great group of people, so talk to them! Sorry for the long post, but I think we've chased our tails enough here. It's gone from "there's a software update coming", to "I won't join a Club as I don't like the font they use on their forum". Time to get on with posting about the cars, and if there's a forum issue go direct to the forum support? []

 

[Monkeythree]

Well said Paul.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Well said Paul.

I'm still catching my breath....

 

[Monkeythree]

The reality is that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Or to quote Nev from the call centre,

"some will, some won't, so what, move on"

 

[944Scott]

The reality is that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

Or to quote Nev from the call centre,

"some will, some won't, so what, move on"

That's true but those who are non paid members are the future and some of the comments made might just put more people like me off joining.

 

[Fred Hindle]

Guests are only the future if they join the Club and help sustain it's future.

Perhaps it is time to get this thread back on track.

Now I'm beginning to like this new format for the forum.

Cheers,

 

[pauljmcnulty]

That's true but those who are non paid members are the future and some of the comments made might just put more people like me off joining.

Fair enough, Scott. You've been signed up here, and as a very active poster on the forum, for four years now. You aren't a Club member, and after four years you probably aren't interested in being a Club member. That's perfectly fine, and there's no issues with you being a forum user now, or a Club member at some point in the future. But, it's a bit unfair to the whole Club team of volunteers to suggest that after four years on the forum, the recent changes are the reason you don't join the Club? You have never in the past suggested the previous forum version was so awful you wouldn't join the Club! I understand your thoughts about some comments made on this one thread, but let's be honest here? If you'd wanted to join you would have paid up four years ago.

I am seriously concerned, as a minor volunteer within the Club and it's forum, that people would ever consider such a small aspect of the Club as the be all and end all of their membership, or consider one person's comments out of well over 15000 forum members as the reason to not join a car club.

I guess my role is to continue to promote a free-for-all forum, and a 944 Register that helps all owners, not just Club members. I think we've got it quite well balanced here, but I need your feedback if we've got it wrong within the 944 owners specifically. Personal messages, not another long series of posts here! []

 

[PSH]

hmmm.. what's going on here then??...currently I am a member, next year who knows, i have been on and off a few times over the years depending on my interests at the time. IIRC i first joined back in 99 and have met many fine Porsche owners over the years, some members , some not, it makes sod all difference to me, they are all colleagues and in some cases friends and all equal in my eyes. I don't like the tone of some of the comments made in this thread, not one little bit and would ask that they cease before we loose some fine people both members and guests. I know one thing, if you ban guests and let's face it the 944 section is made up with an awful lot of them you will most likely loose members too, myself included.

I have no time for bullying , heavy handed comments or elitist views, this forum has always operated in an open type manner and comments made by guests or members should have equal weight. All I wish for is that we respect each others views at all times , remember that this forum is hosted by PCGB and think before we speak.

Pete

 

[Waylander]

Well said, I'm not a member and have no intention of joining but I hope I can help members and non members with input from time to time,

I read and comment in the 944 section as the 968 one is next to dead, and the Essex region has not had a post for nearly a year, I can see no value in joining in my area