Fuel Lines

[GPF]

ORIGINAL: ghost

Fuel lines on the 944 are a specialist part. The fuel is at high pressure. If you don't have mechanical knowledge in this field, be careful. Fuel lines have been known to burst into flames if not repaired correctly. I recently had both of mine replaced front to back. The rear axle and fuel tank had to be dropped to fit the lines and new support brackets correctly. In my opinion, it's not a job that should be bodged.

Where is that popcorn smiley like on Rennlist? []

Who said anything about bodging it?

Fuel lines on most modern cars are under pressure. It is completely unnecessary to give up an arm and leg to have someone drop the rear axle and fit full length metal pipes. The original fuel lines are flexible hoses at both ends, including going back up to the tank. You simply need a new flexi line using adequately specced fuel pipe (like the original does) and appropriate swaged fittings to go over the axle and join the metal pipes the other side. The flexi line simply becomes a little longer than the original, and the metal line becomes a little shorter. There are also now hard but flexible plastic lines to replace the metal sections.

If you want to pay the extra in order to have it "all original" then fine, but turning it into a huge expensive job for any other reason is just another way to rip off the gullible.

Just out of interest, does anyone know what Porsche use on the current models?

Regards

 

[Hilux]

Fuel pipes are not rocket science. You can run the whole lot in flexible hose if you want to. All you have to do is increase the use of supports/P clips (but use rubber shielded metal ones and NOT plastic on rubber hoses)

The other benefit of solid lines under the car is if it grounds but most are run in a recess anyway.

I always recommend a flare or swage on the end of solid lines when connecting flexible hoses due to the high pressures however when it is awkward I ensure the hose is well pushed on and use two decent st/steel clips (not cheap flea-bay items) making sure they are proper fuel hose clips with even clamp pressure and NOT jubilee type.

Given the cost of dropping the rear axle (in a garage) and the effort in doing it yourself I cant see why anyone would plump for solids personally.

 

[noneil]

I think I've got the main fuel line sorted, I'm off to Pirtek tomorrow to get a union to connect the filter to the flow pipe (10mm).

But I'm not entirely sure about the return pipe. I've identified that the return pipe is one on the left (as you look at them from the back of the car), but this is clearly a 10mm hose, and everywhere I've read the return pipe is 8mm?

Is there a reason for this? It seems to make more sense now to cut the hose above the knackered union and get another new union from Pirtek. I don't understand the change from 8mm to 10mm?

If it sounds like I am wrong please tell me . . .

Cheers,

Neil

 

[ghost]

You pays your money and takes your choice. I went for the genuine Porsche warranted parts.
New lines, clamps, rubber mountings, connecting pieces.
All in at £426.11 inc. supply, fit and VAT at my local independent garage.

Jobs a good 'n for another 20 years. []

 

[FistsOfHam]

I got a set from RPM for £300+VAT and that came with new braided hoses and new clamps to mount the whole lot in place. Very pleased with the results and because they're flexi you don't need to remove the rear axle set up to fit them which is a massive bonus.

I did them myself (although my axle was already off) and fitted the whole lot in well under a day (excluding a wrong connector for my poor misfit car).

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I got a set from RPM for £300+VAT and that came with new braided hoses and new clamps to mount the whole lot in place. Very pleased with the results and because they're flexi you don't need to remove the rear axle set up to fit them which is a massive bonus.

I'd second that as a very good "middle-price" option. Using original parts is going to be a lot more than Ghost's price for most people as his garage underquoted a bit!

I had a flexi repair on VJ, the line was pouring fuel at an alarming rate and I didn't want to drive it 40 mins to RPM. I rolled downhill to the local mechanics, and the whole job was just over £100 including VAT and parts. Flew through MOTs for the next few years and as far as I know it's still fine. They are only cars, and although I agree that a "proper" replacement is the ideal solution if you're looking 20 years down the line I don't see why people panic over the idea of using flexi to repair if it's done properly.

 

[wolfie308]

Where is that popcorn smiley like on Rennlist? []

What this one?.....

Always a topic with widely differing opinions, I shall read again with interest. Personally, not a job I'd entertain myself, but wouldn't have a problem using the correct grade of flexible properly made up and fitted by someone competent.

 

[noneil]

Any tips on getting the fuel line brackets off? Do the plastic retainers just pop off, or is there more to it?

Cheers,

Neil

 

[noneil]

All done now, thankfully, and I can't find any leaks []

It cost about £50 plus tools, not including swearbox money - it's pretty hard pushing rubber hose over a flared pipe . . .

Thanks for all the above advice.

Cheers,

Neil

 

[pauljmcnulty]

All done now, thankfully, and I can't find any leaks

It cost about £50 plus tools, not including swearbox money - it's pretty hard pushing rubber hose over a flared pipe . . .

Thanks for all the above advice.

Cheers,

Neil

Fantastic. There was a Porsche enthusiast on Facebook this week worrying about having to scrap their scruffy 944 due to the huge price of original parts plus fitting. Time to be a little less "precious" about them, and find ways to cut costs without cutting corners.

 

[Peter Empson]

Another RPM flexi'd 944 used here, the 944S has them throughout, works a treat!

 

[sawood12]

Agree with the comments on Flexi lines on here with one caveat. Flexi lines provide a good compromise given the age of these cars and the cost of installing the OEM parts, but people have to realise that flexi lines are not as good as hard pipes - this is why all new cars still feature hard pipes and not flixi's. You can't get around this from a pure engineering point of view. If you're going the flexi route then you need to be mindful of this and be extra vigilant. Hard pipes are maintenance free and will last 20yrs and when they fail they fail in a relatively safe way. Flexi lines are not maintenance free - they chafe against the underside of the car wherever they contact it, they are susceptible to degradation over time and simply wont last as long. But having said that they will probably outlast most peoples ownership period.

Somebody mentioned £300 for the flexi kit - well the OEM parts are roughly this and contrary to popular opinion it is possible to install OEM parts without dropping the rear axel - but most specialists wont because it is a faff and an undesirable job and they want more money out of you for all the other jobs they'll find that need doing once the axel is off. However if your car is 20yrs old and the axel is coming off for something else then that is an opportune time to do this job.

I'm all for doing jobs in the most cost effective way as long as a proper job is done (I don't like the phrase 'cutting corners' as it implies bodging), but at the end of the day these are 20yr old cars and Porsches for that matter - they will cost you something to run and if you can't stomach the costs then you should maybe reconsider owning the car in the first place.

In anycase alot of the costs mentioned here for jobs such as head gaskets and fuel line replacements are now not that much different to the costs for similar jobs for modern mundane family hatchbacks (like a Ford Focus for example). It is cheaper to replace the timing belt at a Porsche specialist on a 944 than it is on a Focus at a local high street garage let alone a Ford dealership. And Servicing my previous 944 turbo is cheaper compared to the servicing costs for a Diesel SMax.

 

[Northern924]

As its been said many opinions on this one, but have to say that about 5 years ago I had a leaking pipe on a 924 in the usual place where it does over the rear axle.

Did a quick fix, cut out the offending section, bought a piece of correctly rated fuel pipe, flared the original steel softened the rubber pipe and clamped it on, meaning to it again.
2 years later I had to mention it to the guy who bought it from me []

 

[tref]

Sure enough, the time has come when I do have to play the fuel line game... just a quick question for those that have done this job: what methods of keeping the fuel in place have worked for you? I have half a tank of fuel, (which stays put unless the engine is run, suggesting to me the problem is on the return pipe) which I'd rather not drain unless I have to!

Thanks,

Tref.

 

[Joss Walker]

I was tempted by the RPM flexible hoses all the way through, I think their £350 pounds ish.
Anybody used them?

I had these installed on my S2 as it started leaking fuel just a few weeks after I bought it. Really impressed with the setup, they use braided hoses and since they are flexible you don't have to drop anything on the rear. However their cost estimate is very conservative and doesn't include all the connectors and clips etc, I was quite surprised with the final cost and am now quite embarrassed since people in this thread are talking about their cost being £100! I guess you live and learn, I should have joined this club when I bought the car, not a year later!

If you want to know what I paid them PM me, I really can't type it on a public forum!

 

[Joss Walker]

ORIGINAL: Joss Walker


I was tempted by the RPM flexible hoses all the way through, I think their £350 pounds ish.
Anybody used them?

I had these installed on my S2 as it started leaking fuel just a few weeks after I bought it. Really impressed with the setup, they use braided hoses and since they are flexible you don't have to drop anything on the rear. However their cost estimate is very conservative and doesn't include all the connectors and clips etc, I was quite surprised with the final cost

I have dug out my old invoice (I keep them all but don't like to look at them often!-I'm sure I can't be alone in this respect) and I need to set the record straight. When RPM replaced my lines the total cost of parts was GBP333, including a couple of Porsche hoses that cost GBP30 and a new fuel filter (another GBP30). I'm not sure of the labour charge/time as I had a load of other stuff done at the same time. Therefore their estimate of GBP350 would seem to be bang on for the parts. My unpleasant memory came from the accumulated cost of this and the other work they did (replacing PAS pump, rebuilding pump mount, new tensioner rod, coolant flush) which had slipped my mind.

I don't want to cast RPM in the wrong light, they've always been excellent with me and very open about what I should do now, can do in a couple of years and what maybe desirable but un-necessary.

There, that's made me feel less guilty!

 

[FistsOfHam]

I used the RPM flexible hose kit. Very impressed with it. I had the rear axle dropped anyway due to needing to treat a bit of surface rust before it got any worse around the mountings but here are the pics of mine installed.

It took a while to get the connections right on mine as they'd never done a kit for an early 944 before and mine was based on a kit for a 924S then we changed the connections to get everything right. Luckily they were very accommodating and I was in no rush due to the car being an on going project.

I was supplied with the hose and all the connectors and all I had to do was cut the hose to length then fit the connectors and strap to the car using the clips provided.

I'm impressed by the finish and it's much better than the rotten old metal lines that snapped as I removed them from the car they were that bad.

 

[tref]

What have people done to get the pipe clip off that is just above the torsion bar housing? It seems nigh on impossible to get at without dropping the rear suspension? have the various flexi-pipe options left it in place an by-passed it?

 

[Indi9xx]

Please do not be tempted to use rubber hose and hose clips, I have seen way too many issues with people trying this route, we normally see them on new customers cars recently bought on ebay and either leaking or about to leak!

Indeed the fuel pressure reg's on some 944's have a push fit hose and jubilee clip, but that it a very low pressure fuel return line, not quite the same as a 2.5 to 3.0 bar (and more if the fuel pressure goes out of spec!)

We first made a kit to replace the rear sections of 944 fuel lines years ago using a system of a 100 Bar rated flexible section, crimped high pressure ends and of course high pressure fittings to hook up to the original pipes beyond the corrosion zone, without ever seeing a failure, however... as the years have rolled by, we have seen the pipes corrode further and the front sections of original pipe failing, so developed a complete solution using the same flexible composite tube used by modern car manufacturers which works well and is even easier to fit.

So my advice? Don't use rubber hose and a couple of jubilee clips, use a system which is rated many times higher than the highest probable fuel pressure that your car might develop ( >5 Bar) and has a coupling up to the job..

Or you could use the genuine Porsche pipes... Expensive to buy, very time consuming to install.. If you're going to remove the beam anyway, do it.. if not, don't put yourself through it.

 

[sawood12]

The photo's above appear to show that the braided flexi hose is clamped right up against the underside of the body of the car and there are a couple of sections where it is bent over an edge - like in the shot where the hose appears to be bent over the inlet manifold. Though this looks like a quality kit of parts i'm not too impressed with the installation. Fuel hoses whether flexi or hard lines, should be installed so they stand-off from whatever it is they are attached to. The OEM fuel lines are mounted in this way and flexi lines should also be - especially flexi lines as they are so susceptible to external chafing - they shouldn't be in contact with the underside of the car at all along their entire length. I'd be very concerned with accelerated wear at these specific pinch points. If the photo's are showing this then i'd be keeping a very close eye on them to check for any chaffing and accelerated wear.