Horizontal fan on a 911? LOLA PORSCHE

[911hillclimber]

Hello Gary: I've been through all those thoughts add infinitum! I cannot see a way to mount discs inboard. The issue is the starter motor side as the disc diameter is about 200mm max before it hits the motor. Pushbike brakes are bigger! I will not be using the stock starter, just too big and heavy. There is a great slender epicylic strater available for £250 which would allow a bigger disc. On that side of the box there is nowhere to mount a bracket. My current plan is 3 fold: Have the March F2 uprights professionally modified for caliper mounts (some March F2's had these uprights) This is specialised stuff with Magnesium but certainly doable. I've found a suitable supplier, just need to complete the drgs. Find the rare caliper uprights! I will be dead before I find some I think. Make some from steel using ford Sierra hubs and custom fabrications 'kit-car' style. This will add a certain tractor appearence to the car! However; it can be done and I've all the parts to do it. I've been quoted a cool £3250 + vat to have some made in steel by a hillclimb car manufacturer, and similat money to have some cast in allum alloy (better than magnesium) and machined for my existing March drive shafts etc. Must remember the ones I have are worth a bob or 3. This is now the big task on the car, but doable with some effort and $$$$$$$$. Terry: I didn't know you looked at this thread! Your old motor will shape-up well. I look forward to running it up Prescott just as I saw your Nomad do all those years ago! Finished the rear suspension crossbeam and mounted the rear anti roll bar last night, and my welder is still working. Now, that is progress. Graham.

 

[Alex Postan]

Don't muck up the original uprights! The Mk 8 and Mk 9 Hewland boxes used a VW case (a Porsche design) and mounted their inboard brakes from substantial lugs cast in to the Hewland side plates. The calipers then sat at the upper rear of the discs. Starter motor aside, what is to prevent you from dismantling the box, fitting longer studs set into helicoils or time serts and then to fabricate a bracket that picks up on the circle of studs?

 

[911hillclimber]

That is a good idea and all doable with time and a bit of work. I very nearly bought an FT 200 for this car (wish I had in many ways now) but it was too fragile (220 lbft max) That is though a lot of messing about and will take a bit of time too. The case is aluminium so welding is not out of the question either and then machine true. The smaller racing starters are very much smaller, but I think will still only allow 250mm dia discs. There are other actute clearance probs with the exhaust and gear shifter too... I have a tele call from someone who just might have some caliper uprights! Fingers crossed.

 

[Gary71]

Brakes are over rated [] I believe the middle part of the case to be magnesium, so have fun welding to that []

 

[911hillclimber]

Mag alloy seems to be weldable if done properly. The 2.4 gear cases and I think the 2.7's were mag alloy, but 3/3.2's went to alloy along with the engine crank cases. Seem's my contact does have some F2 uprights with caliper mounts and I'm hoping to view them Sunday, but one needs some (welded) repair, the other is new. My fingers are crossed. The racing uprights are feather weight indeed. This contact also has racing calipers so I hope to one-stop-shop for the lot and find some new discs. This will advance the car no end and get me to the driveshaft/CV stage asap. Later Porsche CV's are the same dimensions a as Ford Sierra's.... Oil systems and coolers will be next and then to the cooling fan and the final Big Weld day to finish it all off for painting. Overall plan is to have the engine running for Xmas then paint/wires/body mounting frames/seat/brake bleed and set-up. Not too much to get done![]

 

[Alex Postan]

Welding castings, be they Mag or Aluminium is not always successful. If you do follow the repaired F2 upright route, find the best specialist that you can (The VSCC boys have many contacts in the repair of unobtanium dept.) and have them do the work and then HAVE IT CRACK-TESTED TO AVIATION STANDARDS. If you are intending to hill climb the beastie, why don't you follow down the FT200 route, fit an oil pump and to lubricate cluster and crownwheel (see Bruce Anderson book on same trick on 915 box) and be prepared to strip and inspect on a regular basis? The positive is that the Hewland is a dog box and will give you a far quicker and more positive change than Prof Porsche's synchro unit. Up Shelsley I estimate that you might have six or seven gearchanges and you could save up to 0.1sec on each change. [] And the straight cut gears waste less power. And I think that the FT200 is lighter. And you can play super games with gear ratios - a gear for every corner of every hill. And it will look more racy - black anodised case with shiny natural sideplates and end case looks better than the exhaust on a Saxo[]

 

[911hillclimber]

My original plan on this car was the FT200 with a Rover V8 as I could get the engine/box adaptor quite easy. The guy who I bought the car from had a 'fresh' FT in it with a 2 litre turbo Cossie engine which would rip that box apart as it stood. I need a reverse gear too, and the HD start gears for the FT need the reverse removing so that really put an end to the FT route. I was told by 3 independent experts and Elite that the FT would fail with AVONs and anything over 220 lbft. That also killed off the V8 and Hewland. The good bit was the FT came with huge vented discs etc all done and ready. It looked fab and was £6K. The 911 engine will not fit the Hewland due to the starter motor position being along-side the box rather than the more common alongside the engine block. Options were getting short. I wanted the car to be different. An FT with a Pinto would just be a big formula ford 4 pot (not my cup-a-tea), the V8 would need an FGB/C or bigger and it was getting silly, and still no reverse. The Coswoth BDA option was a stupid price for 200 bhp and a 4 pot BMW the same.... Then I spotted Terry's drivetrain for sale and the lot came my way. Unusual and easy to cope with as I'm quite familiar with the combo. I did look into the Renault UN1 box and that is a bag of snakes too costing £5K to get a reliable one. There is no way I'm changing this lot over now! I'll get there soon with these uprights, and I'm happy with the Porsche warts and all. Another option to explore are custom steel uprights using the bearings/hubs/centre locks of the F2. They would be more delicate than the Kit Car option, just a bit awkward to machine.(after fabrication) Jumping to the mag alloy uprights and welding/repair: Understand exactly what you say. I've found [link=http://www.uk-racing-castings.co.uk]www.uk-racing-castings.co.uk[/link] and have sent them a techie fax for mods and other options. It will be interesting to see their answer, costs and timescales. Thanks to you all for showing interest in my little project. It helps me a lot to keep focus. Graham.

 

[911hillclimber]

I now have the right uprights![8D] One is new and the other certainly not and damaged, but they are March and they have caliper mounts. Damaged one is off to the welders tomorrow and I hope he is as good as I'm told. (pro welder etc). If this all fails then steel uprights it is and to hell with the rear weight increase (natural to a 911 driver [] !) Things are moving quickly again, and I will start the final welding on the 'lightly stressed' parts. I will have the wishbones pro welded along with the major chassis welds. Easy way to spend money? Do a project like this one! []

 

[Alex Postan]

I am sure that you will have thought of this but it could be sensible to do a trial assembly of hub, upright, disc and caliper - and then see if the wheel fits. [:-]

 

[911hillclimber]

Just been measuring and welding all night.... The uprights are machined exactly as the current hubs. I'm transfering the wheel bearings, the CV/drive stubs and the wheel flange/center lock and drive pin hubs across. The current Mag alloy wheels I have (13'' x 12'' wide) already fit this lot. That is a saving of about £550 using all these parts. This is why the search was so important as I still keep all the original March parts that are exquisitly made, real pro race car stuff. A brake company called Compbrake will make from CNC blanks bespoke bells/vented bolt-on discs and billet machined 4 pot calipers to fit these March uprights. This should match the huge F3000 front Brembo brakes and all tuck under the 13'' rims. This 550Kg car will stop for sure. There is, after a quick measure, a chance the March driveshafts will fit the CV's on the box as I'll be using the small 911 CV's (same as the ford Sierra's) otherwise another £300 bill coming my way for shafts. Good job my wife likes race cars! [&:]

 

[911hillclimber]

Rerached a mile stone this weekend with the Lola. almost can't think of any more tubes to weld into the rear chassis! Found myself thinking how to run the aeroquip brake lines along the chassis.... Fully welded the exhaust with my new-found MIG welding skills, changed the drive shaft stubs in the gearbox to the smaller ones I just so happened to have in the drawer.(more clearance to the exhaust) This left the rear end for all to see, so I thought I would let you in on it: The way it has worked out is I can remove the gearbox only, or the whole drivetrain without removing/disturbing the rear suspension. Not sure if I've said this already, but I've found some March uprights with caliper mounts so that is the brake thing sorted (except finding the ££££ to buy some brakes..) Soon be time to get the pro welder in to fully weld the frame, then to do the driveshafts/brakes, the rest of the exhaust, then the oil system. More bloody tubes and pipes.[&:] The first race is only 4 months away. Will I make it? [8|]

 

[sailor]

The power of positive thinking, dear boy. Of course you will. Otherwise you will let us down. No pressure, then. JohnC 993turbo

 

[911hillclimber]

My WIFE has asked how much money I need and when? Can this be true, or is it a trick?? Time will tell, but 4 months? [&:] Looks too easy from this shot []

 

[Alex Postan]

Double the amount that you first think of and then add 50%. You need it now, while the offer is still warm[]

 

[jwhillracer]

And keep back a bit for the S. Wales Christmas Bash with all the rest of the hillclimbers for encouragement![] Keep it up Graham![8D] JW

 

[911hillclimber]

I've just been welding a bit tonight just for a change...then took a long look at the flat fan custom made for Terry. The more you look into it the more you see the work involved. The air duct/shroud is a wok of tin snipping art too. I was going to dump it for a f/glass one, but it is far too good for that. It will get the crinkle black treatment and some nice plated screws and will look a treat. Must have taken absolutly ages to do that lot, and some skill too. Loosing momentum a little this week as there is termoil at work [] but i think I might be safe. Raised a smile from Alex 'while the offer is still warm' You've met the wife then! I recon about 5K should do it. I think this will be a bonza of a car when sorted. Graham. Must stop chatting as I'm running out of pics!

 

[Gary71]

Thanks going to be one fantastic machine []

 

[sailor]

ORIGINAL: 911hillclimber My WIFE has asked how much money I need and when? Can this be true, or is it a trick?? Time will tell, but 4 months? [&:] Looks too easy from this shot []

Cor! Thought I was the only guy on this forum married to an heiress.But mine doesn't ask how much I want.She just doles out what she thinks I need, which of course results in a shortfall. Hillclimber, treasure that girl you have. The car, by the way, SWEET. JohnC 993turbo

 

[911hillclimber]

Note! I have not said she agrees with my estimate... There will be careful, contrived, tricky-micky negotiations to be conducted under the influence of romance, music and a good bottle of Chillian white, tastefully chilled in a Nice Hotel (chosen by her of course) That will be round One. Then I will get what I want (from her point of view) I will then sulk and a compromise position agreed. This process applies to anyone married, especially for over 30 years to the same 'Boss'. []

 

[vitesse]

I have to admit that in our household,what's mine is hers, & what's hers, is her own.[&o]. Is that compromise "position " page 76 by any chance.? I have to say I have been jealously enjoying your story;-all my spare money has gone on our cottage on the IOM.I just about get away with the odd track day,replacing the worn fabric seats in the 924S with S/H leather ones & picking up the bills for running 2 Porsches & the BMW. That apart,where on earth do you find the time for all that welding,etc.even with my own engineering company,I just don't have the time.[8|]