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Porsche 944 Prices - The Future....

I think Shark was probably being just a little more honest than people would like to give an accurate example of what he sees in his day to day work. Lets face it, if you were buying a replacement car, when you take your old one to the dealer for a trade in, would you tell him about every stone chip, blister of rust, a clonk the suspension makes only on the left hand side, only when you hit a pot hole and only when the car is cold? Or would you just play ignorant with the attitude that you are taking the car to get shot of it and if this guy is calling himself a professional he needs to find the faults for himself? I think most people would take the second attitude, which would mean that most of the cars seen by car dealers would be in a poor state that the customer had said was "mint", but when he sells that same customer a car he will be coming back like a lightening bolt as soon as he finds so much as a sign of wear on a brake disk... That is going to leave anyone with an attitude that either many of the general public are crooks out to defraud him, or they are generally mechanically ignorant. No one here should take that personally, I bet most doctors get annoyed with people saying they feel ill and have a bad chest, yet they smell of fags... its the same kind of thing. My pet peeve is telling people that their brakes are shot to bits, worn down bellow minimum tolerance and the slider plates have lifted and therefore their brakes are not working as they should, who then tell me that this can't be true as the car passed an MOT last week.... Well, it is not a surprise they passed an MOT last week because the specification for an MOT pass was set in 1965 and are based on the weight of the car, which means a 944 Turbo will be judged against the minimum performance of a 1965 Ford Zephyr, A minimum performance which had to allow for the Ford Zephyr having pretty damn poor versions of drum brakes otherwise they would not have been able to pass the MOT with half worn brake shoes.. A ford Zephyr which also had a maximum speed of 80mph and even when new would have taken a couple of miles to come to a stop from that 80mph, rather than a Porsche able to go 160mph which may be trying to avoid a 2010 ford focus which is making an emergency stop and could currently out brake their Porsche with dodgy brakes.. But it is hard to keep your cool in the face of this when you have to explain that ten times a week to people who think you must be a crooked garage trying to con them into having work performed on their brakes. Every profession has bad aspects of customers that can grind you down over time, for me the people who are prepared to listen make it worth it, but I expect a used car dealer rarely gets the chance to get that far along the customer relationship building process, as this time they will be buying what you have in stock and next time they want a car they will probably want something you don't have. I'd never make a decent car dealer, I would go bust in no time, I panic about every detail on a car if I am selling it, I have the attitude that as a Porsche specialist I absolutely can not pleed ignorance to any fault, no matter how small a detail, that silver lux is about to get a new blower knob because the current one is loose.. not falling off loose, but my paranoid brain looks at this knob and thinks I can imagine some really anal buyer might bring the car back, ranting and raving about it, being on a snagging list of ten items with things as trivial as this knob, so off it comes and on goes a new one which is on its way from Germany for about £16... Then I look at a ball joint boot on the front wishbone and think to myself, I bet that has not been changed in years and I bet it will split through age as soon as the buyer takes it to another specialist, who you just know would like to find fault with one of my cars.. On a brighter note, its not long till spring and everything will be much brighter and we can all hoon around in our cars and looking down our noses at those Boxster owners who used to look down their noses at 944 owners! lol
 
ORIGINAL: Indi9xx On a brighter note, its not long till spring and everything will be much brighter and we can all hoon around in our cars and looking down our noses at those Boxster owners who used to look down their noses at 944 owners! lol
A whole bundle of truths, but that last bit made me chuckle
 
ORIGINAL: Waylander
ORIGINAL: Indi9xx On a brighter note, its not long till spring and everything will be much brighter and we can all hoon around in our cars and looking down our noses at those Boxster owners who used to look down their noses at 944 owners! lol
A whole bundle of truths, but that last bit made me chuckle
I'm struggling a bit with this...does my attitude depend on which car I drive now? [:D]
 
Well personally, I take offence to Shark's suggestion that private sellers are all idiots with crap cars. Speaking as an enthusiast, on an owners club forum - I would also think i am not in the minority. I always look to buy my cars from an enthusiast, owners club member, etc - ask as many questions as possible and get a feeling of how the seller sounds, before even travelling. Of all the cars I have viewed to buy, I have only been seriously let down twice, and both of those were from dealers - one of which was a very well regarded Mercedes specialist whom the MB owners club members were gushing about - yet I have never seen such a misdescribed PoS in all my life!! That was 8 hours I'll never get back! Likewise, when I sell a car it will be in fine fettle as I like my cars to be right. If there are any faults that I haven't had chance to rectify, these are noted and factored in the asking price and I make sure my advert is detailed with decent photos, and I've never had anyone have good reason to knock me down on faults I have not declared. Maybe I'm in the minority, but as I say, of all the enthusiast cars I have bought, I have never had a problem with private sellers.
 
ORIGINAL: Shark Unless the owner was a manic enthusiast, all private sale 944's leave a lot to be desired. Even when the guy is an enthusiast, the car can still be a dog, worse sometimes! Joe public does not have a clue how to maintain his car, doesn't even know how to clean it, keep it or drive it properly. He is blind to any glaring faults too (usually a catalogue of problems)...and when you go to view it as a private sale there will be zero preparation for the viewing (car will be filthy for eg). When you see all that, walk away....
Sounds like trade buyers talk, I wouldn't be surprised if most of those same cars photograph wonderfully after 3 or 4 hours valeting.
 
Sounds like trade buyers talk, I wouldn't be surprised if most of those same cars photograph wonderfully after 3 or 4 hours valeting.
Exactly! That's why I despair so much when looking at adverts for what might be very good 944s, but the adverts let them down so badly. If you are not sure about how to advertise a car then ask! Take a look at the traders to see how a comprehensive advert, with quality photos and attention to the common areas of concern, can make a car so much more saleable than a two-line description on ebay, with some out-of focus pictures taken in a breaker's yard...[8|] It's so easy to put together a good ad for a used car now. Personally, I see a poor ad as saying a lot about the seller, and that's a turn-off. 3 or 4 hours valeting, good pictures, listing work done recently: that has more appeal. Even though we know it's the equivalent of an estate agent putting out some fresh flowers and having coffee on the boil, at least it shows some effort.
 
ORIGINAL: blade7
ORIGINAL: Shark Unless the owner was a manic enthusiast, all private sale 944's leave a lot to be desired. Even when the guy is an enthusiast, the car can still be a dog, worse sometimes! Joe public does not have a clue how to maintain his car, doesn't even know how to clean it, keep it or drive it properly. He is blind to any glaring faults too (usually a catalogue of problems)...and when you go to view it as a private sale there will be zero preparation for the viewing (car will be filthy for eg). When you see all that, walk away....
Sounds like trade buyers talk, I wouldn't be surprised if most of those same cars photograph wonderfully after 3 or 4 hours valeting.
We're all entitled to opinions. However, I couldn't take Mr Shark's seriously.
 
ok.. so maybe not every one.. but if all 944 owners took perfect care of their cars, then each time I bought one I wouldn't have a snag list a side and half of A4 long for each car...which there usually is. Bought a 53 Golf R32 today.. only 64,000miles...a specialist, enthusiast car.. lets see.. nsf wheel bearing roaring n/s/r wheel hub wobbling about broken grille aerial missing two slow punctures management light on brake fluid leaking at osr caliper rear brakes binding acc pedal rubber missing both front springs broken front roll bar droplinks finished ..the guy really knew how to look after that? A while ago, I went to see a 951 belonging to the secretary of a Porsche forum (not this one).. you would think that car would be right? .. Wrong, it was awful, and was undeclared catD etc, never bought it. I bought at long distance without viewing a 968 Sport from the general manager of an Aston Martin dealership.. now that car would be right? Wrong, worst 968 in the country.. two pages of faults, inc water sloshing about behind the dashboard and no front wipers on the car, the wiper motor in the boot. ..there is just three examples that spring to mind of cars that should have been very well cared for...
 
None of this surprises me, I sold our 968 for £3K to EMC the other year and was glad to get shot at that. Kevin had been pushing for ages at £2.5K but eventually offered 3 and I gladly took it. ISTR he looked at that car, realised there was no money in it and sold it on to another trader who sold it on again. I have heard several stories of the car turning up on ebay etc. at 6 or 7 K or more with no great claim of work done. Every now and then it seems to turn up somewhere. IMHO the car needed at least £4K spending on it and was a complete money pit that would never be worthwhile tidying up. I bought that car from a guy who is relatively enthusiastic, honest decent chap which I have known for some time. It started going wrong 5 miles from his house when the heat shield around the exhaust manifold broke. I flat refuse to even consider private sale now, most sellers ask far too much for the risk being taken relative to traders and one has to wait a long time and put a lot of effort in to even find what may be decent deals. Our last 3 cars all bought from traders, all with 6 month warranties on them. My RR was actually the cheapest for sale in the UK at the time but has been a really fantastic dependable car, another top 10% job. Our Pug looked a great buy but went wrong the next day after picking up, £700 later at Pug main dealers she was all fixed up again and all that money came straight out of the dealers pocket no quibbles. I have no personal or financial connection to any car dealer but the internet is full of utter tripe about the business and what they offer, sure there are some dodgy cars and dodgy dealers but you don't have to bother with them.
 
Well put.. It's not just bad sellers. There are bad cars and people that are bad at buying them. It's human nature that a big % of folk will try see away a used car will be economical with the truth in order to secure a deal..trade or private, private folk are actually far far worse for selling crap cars and not disclosing major faults, you just don't hear about them because they do not have to answer to it or back the car up. ..sorry for veering off topic there.. and no offence intended to anyone by the way.. perhaps I can be interpreted as being harsh - but I am Glaswegian I cannot help it! (and im actually rather polite compared to the rest of us up here!)
 
ORIGINAL: Shark ok.. so maybe not every one.. but if all 944 owners took perfect care of their cars, then each time I bought one I wouldn't have a snag list a side and half of A4 long for each car...which there usually is. Bought a 53 Golf R32 today.. only 64,000miles...a specialist, enthusiast car.. lets see.. nsf wheel bearing roaring n/s/r wheel hub wobbling about broken grille aerial missing two slow punctures management light on brake fluid leaking at osr caliper rear brakes binding acc pedal rubber missing both front springs broken front roll bar droplinks finished ..the guy really knew how to look after that? A while ago, I went to see a 951 belonging to the secretary of a Porsche forum (not this one).. you would think that car would be right? .. Wrong, it was awful, and was undeclared catD etc, never bought it. I bought at long distance without viewing a 968 Sport from the general manager of an Aston Martin dealership.. now that car would be right? Wrong, worst 968 in the country.. two pages of faults, inc water sloshing about behind the dashboard and no front wipers on the car, the wiper motor in the boot. ..there is just three examples that spring to mind of cars that should have been very well cared for...
Presumably all that was reflected in what you paid for those cars otherwise why buy them ?
 
ORIGINAL: Shark ok.. so maybe not every one.. but if all 944 owners took perfect care of their cars, then each time I bought one I wouldn't have a snag list a side and half of A4 long for each car...which there usually is. Bought a 53 Golf R32 today.. only 64,000miles...a specialist, enthusiast car.. lets see.. nsf wheel bearing roaring n/s/r wheel hub wobbling about broken grille aerial missing two slow punctures management light on brake fluid leaking at osr caliper rear brakes binding acc pedal rubber missing both front springs broken front roll bar droplinks finished .the guy really knew how to look after that?
Mmmmm, don't quite know where this thread is going now but I would say this, if the 944 referred to was well looked after and I can assure you there are plenty out there, it probably wouldn't be up for sale, and if it was then owner would be advertising for a price to reflect his/ her pride and joy, surely that price wouldn't attract a trader? Likewise, said Golf R32 I suggest didn't cost much more if at all trade money? That gives some money to repair that list and sell for a profit, sell a finance deal possibly and a warranty and earn commission - thats how traders stay in buisiness. But of course, dealers are not all perfect are they, how many times have we gone to view a car not as described, not ready for purchase, been told all will be fixed after the deal has been done only to drive away and find the faults still there, how many times have we returned cars to the car dealer 2 or 3 times before the car is fixed? Bit daft coming on to a 944 forum and calling all the owners idiots with crap cars, I am with Hallsy, and frankly surprised at the post Shark, was it just banter? At the end of the day, car purchase can be a lottery without a pre-purchase inspection, even new cars are not exempt from horrendous stories.
 
We buy trade-ins from dealerships.. That is a privilege, so we cannot refuse.. if we want the good ones we need to take the bad ones too, that's the job.. so not reflected in the price, no. The 968, that was "mint" and we paid good money for it..
 
The point was not the price of the car, its was the poor condition of what should have been a cared for car, an example of poor ownership. way off topic now..
 
ORIGINAL: Shark ok.. so maybe not every one.. but if all 944 owners took perfect care of their cars, then each time I bought one I wouldn't have a snag list a side and half of A4 long for each car...which there usually is. Bought a 53 Golf R32 today.. only 64,000miles...a specialist, enthusiast car.. lets see.. nsf wheel bearing roaring n/s/r wheel hub wobbling about broken grille aerial missing two slow punctures management light on brake fluid leaking at osr caliper rear brakes binding acc pedal rubber missing both front springs broken front roll bar droplinks finished ..the guy really knew how to look after that? A while ago, I went to see a 951 belonging to the secretary of a Porsche forum (not this one).. you would think that car would be right? .. Wrong, it was awful, and was undeclared catD etc, never bought it. I bought at long distance without viewing a 968 Sport from the general manager of an Aston Martin dealership.. now that car would be right? Wrong, worst 968 in the country.. two pages of faults, inc water sloshing about behind the dashboard and no front wipers on the car, the wiper motor in the boot. ..there is just three examples that spring to mind of cars that should have been very well cared for...
The 951 referred to above sold for £2750 - less the break price of a 250bhp car. It's still going strong and loved by the current owner. I guess a car needs to be judged by its price bracket too. A £6k car is typically worth £6k. A £6k car advertised for £12k could rightly be described as appalling (for the asking price).
 
This forum seems to have a lot more enthusiasts and people who care about their cars compared to some other marques. I think we all agree that you need to spend money on your 944 to keep it maintained, running and in presentable order. How much depends on whether you get your spares from OPC, Specialists like Design 911, eBay or breakers and whether you service yourself or use Specialists like Jon @ JMG or in some cases OPC. Here is an example of a car that is being sold when we know it was only £4k a month ago and was in need of a few jobs then but seemed decent value and has had nothing done to it but is now at £9k.... And this is a Dealer!!! http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=281598849571
 
ORIGINAL: simkin911 The 951 referred to above sold for £2750 - less the break price of a 250bhp car. It's still going strong and loved by the current owner. I guess a car needs to be judged by its price bracket too. A £6k car is typically worth £6k. A £6k car advertised for £12k could rightly be described as appalling (for the asking price).
ah.. it was £6k when I was viewing it, that's when nice 944T was well under 10k.. must be about 4 years ago at least. Don't remix my words Andy, I didn't say all you guys had crap cars, there are some of the best cars in the country on this forum. But there are thousands more 944 owners out there that are not enthusiast enough to join a forum, they bought it because it was red.. Tell him when you meet him in a petrol station, "that's a nice 951 you have".. he will reply angrily with a thousand yard stare.. "it's a Porsche 944". Him...that's who im on about..
 

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