Monkeythree
New member
Quality wit! [
]Porsche 944 Prices - The Future....
- Thread starter MartinRS2K
- Start date
]
Frenchy
New member
Partly agree with Shark i would say a good majority of 944 owners have not got the first idea of how to look after a car, i spend as much time under my car cleaning and replacing as i do driving and if i am being honest most of the work is not really required, i will replace nuts and bolts with new if they look a bit crusty. A good mate has his brake calipers stripped and cleaned on his 89 turbo before the car goes back on the road, being honest there is nothing wrong with them, on the other hand another mate has a (had a) lovely example of a 924S now not far away from the scrappy, never washed cleaned or polished and just driven, it now requires a fair bit of welding, he would not part with the ££ for a spare DME relay it then left him stranded for 3 hours on the side of the road, he will only spend what is absolutely necessary, both working with decent salaries no kids etc.............money not really an issue. Before i sold my 220 Turbo i spent a fair chunk of cash at mates rates getting all the little sill scuffs and stonechips repainted so the car basically did not have a mark on it, it was prettty perfect, the new owner was sent pictures before the work so nothing was being hidden and was given the option to leave "as is" he had the door open against next doors gable end [] when i came out of the house to bring the folder of paerwork and history from Day 1.....................Gutted [] I fear the car will never get the care and attention that it deserves, absolutely 100% solid with no corrosion what so ever, a rare thing as my Turbo S has had some metal let in here and there. Appreciate that some people want to use their cars everyday and hats off to you as i fully understand, they are great, i could not bring myself to use mine everyday as it would be parked at my local train station all day and would be picking up knocks and scratches which would drive me nuts !! There seems to be a lot of versions of "immaculate" i have also did quite a few wasted journey's to look at some both dealer and private..................takes my urine over 100 C []
] when i came out of the house to bring the folder of paerwork and history from Day 1.....................Gutted [] I fear the car will never get the care and attention that it deserves, absolutely 100% solid with no corrosion what so ever, a rare thing as my Turbo S has had some metal let in here and there. Appreciate that some people want to use their cars everyday and hats off to you as i fully understand, they are great, i could not bring myself to use mine everyday as it would be parked at my local train station all day and would be picking up knocks and scratches which would drive me nuts !! There seems to be a lot of versions of "immaculate" i have also did quite a few wasted journey's to look at some both dealer and private..................takes my urine over 100 C []
pauljmcnulty
Active member
I don't see an issue with S2 prices: they are lower unless they are absolutely exceptional. That includes mileage, and that 100K is a serious milestone that collectors don't want. A while ago I ranked the fat-bumpered 944s in my order of where I see the value to the collector being:
Essentially, I'm saying there that the S2 is bottom of the list if you are potentially spending £15 or £20K on a low-miles 944 to lock up and never use. The perfect one might well see that price, but they are still more in the demographic of owner-drivers, where they are used for reasonable mileages. I wonder how many of the top-price cars will be used 5 or 7K miles a year, in all weathers, over the next ten years? Fair enough if that's your scene, but I think most of the S2 coupes are still being used and not "preserved". To me that's a sign of them being pick of the range in some ways. Cabs aren't generally everyday cars now, and turbos are so divided between highly-modified or garage queens that it's rare, balbeit nice, to see an un-molested one just driven every day until it falls apart at 300K miles. As designed. [8|] I don't think the S2 (or the series two Lux) will ever be worth the money you'd put in to make them perfect unless it ticks the right boxes: colour, mileage etc., but that's why a good "average" one bought for £5K and actually driven is such a good option as the other versions become more valued when not used.
Neil Haughey
New member
The only problem with that Paul is that at this age a 5 grand boxster is almost certainly going to be a much better condition and lower cost to maintain car than an 'average' condition 944. A really nice 15 grand 951 though might well compare very favourably against say an E36/46 M3 or early 996 which seem to be impossible to find now with low miles, I think this is logically the sort of thing which is driving the value of really nice cars a long way away from the average lower model variants. Low miles minty early 996s in particular don't seem to exist any more, I spotted one a little while back at £16K but it must have sold fast as was gone from the net by the next day.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Possibly, I don't know the ins and outs of Boxster "risks", so can't say if a £5K Boxster is a less-risky buy than a well-bought £5K S2. What I would say is that they don't appeal to the same market, although I appreciate a lot of 944 owners go on to Boxsters or 996s. I see the 944 as still in the classic camp, and more appealing to someone who wants something different. Boxsters are still seen as a modern, and certainly near me a common, car: partly because so many were made, but also so many are silver, and Porsche's "evolutionary" design means many people wouldn't know the age of a 2000 boxster if you lined it up with a new one. Some of us want a car that's got the look of an old model, with classic '70s design and '80s image, not a car that might be near-perfect to drive but looks new. I'd be more likely to go back to a 3.2 than forward to a 996 if the price was the same, purely on the look and image. I know that's not possible, but the point is valid.
You're gonna make me cry ....[
]
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Is there another S2 here in the same condition as yours, though? They are rare, so I doubt it. I don't imagine you having any trouble getting the same price as any of the best 944s sold recently, and what would it cost you to replace it? I've seen a fair few turbos restored to that level, but I don't think there will ever be so many S2s have the same time and money put in to them. Not a criticism at all.
edh
New member
Possibly true Neil, and I think the Boxster is likely to be in much better cosmetic order - but you have the IMS risk with the M96 engine, which would mean your £5k Boxster is scrap if it fails.. (Break it for ~£3k, sell it for ~£1.5k). I do have a list of the things a 15 year old / 100k mile Boxster or 996 needs (or will have had done) and it's fairly extensive. They don't have the same longevity as a 944. My checklist (I bet Shark has a few to add [
]) Radiators & condensors All suspension arms, tie rods & droplinks Dampers Brake discs (rear faces rust before they wear out) Hood Clutch (cheaper than a 944) Coolant tank (surprisingly expensive and a nasty, fiddly job) A friend of mine is now the best part of £20k into his 996 C2 3.4 after suspension, clutch, and Hartech engine rebuild.. I still want one though.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Modern Astons, Alfa 4c?
Greg James
New member
I agree with Paul's point on valued cars stop being enjoyable. I got an 89 911 super sport about seven years ago with 13k miles on it to enjoy but the way they have gone I don't us it. The up side I got a 944 and love to drive it when I fancy and don't worry about leaving it places the rain or anything. But happy! So weirdly I hope 944 stay under the radar one garage queen investment is one to many. But I still love the look of the old 911 that's what I brought it for, but not rich enough not to worry about losing tens of thousands by using it to much.
£24k .... http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/944/944-turbo-low-miles-with-amazing-history-and-provenance-best-available/3701899
I sometimes feel like that with my Cab, however I bought it to drive and if the value is going up then that offsets to a certain extent the cost of using it - admittedly mine has done in the region of 70K so not the same as a 13k car, but if mine gets to 100k it might still be worth more than I paid for it at 70k and I have had enjoyment from driving it. Is a well looked after 911 at 20k miles worth that much less than one with 13k, especially over 20 years old? Tony
I had the same thoughts. Even if the car was bought as an investment, I'd assume back then you didn't think it would go up in value as much as it has? Even so, you aren't losing money by using it, just gaining less if you did ever to decide to sell. Even then, if that gain with some use outweighs what you thought it would be worth now, it's still a bonus, even if it doesn't make it as a valuable as a garage queen. Seems a shame not to use it. I've only ever been in one of that era, an '87 Carrera Targa, lovely car and felt like a real event being in it - would love to own an aircooled 911 one day, but not likely unless my numbers come up, lol!!
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Interesting, but possibly not the most important thing to mention in a car ad! [&:]
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