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Sat Nav/TMC

This issue is going off the boil while we wait for the next meeting of the Directors! This is exactly what PGB will be hoping for; as we fail to keep pressure on so our argument becomes diluted.

I've checked the Club website for details of the Board meeting and find only minutes for a meeting held on 18 March with a commitment to further meetings on 16 April, 7 May and 4 June; sadly, the minutes for these meetings are not archived on line - if, indeed, they took place at all. Nevertheless, what matters to us now is the commitment by Robin Walker to raise the issue at the next Board meeting; so my question is - has that meeting taken place and, if so, what was the outcome; otherwise, when is the meeting intended to take place?

Perhaps none of the Board members are affected by the TMC issue hence their inertia to deal with this issue on our behalf. A useful outcome of any meeting would be to allow Derek and Rob to represent the Club in negotiations with PGB over the TMC issue; however, the cynic in me believes that our Board will not authorise such interaction in case it adversely affects the relationship between PGB and PCGB.

As an aside, does anyone know what commitments were agreed to in forming the relationship and whether they have been formalised? I can't find out any details on the Club website!
 
Firstly: discussion at Board level on the TMC subject. As of today, neither Rob nor myself have heard anything. The promise to discuss TMC was made by Robin Walker at the Festival, but not one word on the subject has been spoken since. I tend to think that any discussion between PCGB and PGB would only come following a Board decison to take up our cause. That decision is doubtful, given the fact that I first brought this to the attention of David Newton way back in June. He promised to discuss the problem with a Porsche AG Board member at the Festival. However, given that I heard nothing after that I suspect the discussion did not take place. In fact I doubt if any discussion has taken place other than what took place between Rob & I and Andy Goss, Geoff Turrel at the Festival.

In my opinion, apart from Good Will, this subject may well be best taken up at OPC level. After all, they took our money and will want more. I think that in law, our argument lies with the Seller.

With regard to the Agreement between PCGB and PAG/PGB, I understand that the Agreement has finally been signed by both parties and is available for any Club member to view at Cornbury House. I gather that one can only read it in the company of a Director/Senior Club Staff and only after an appointment has been made.

Rest assured, Rob and I will not let this subject 'go off the boil', but neither of us have sufficient clout to do much. If you feel that our Board is not best serving our needs, turn up at the AGM and tell them! If you have a question to put to the Board, it should be served in sufficient time for them to discuss it prior to the AGM. So get writing now! They will then be forced to discuss it at Board level!!!
 
Derek,

Firstly, I have no criticism of you or Rob; your efforts are constrained by PCGB policy. I know that you won't let the issue die - but I'm equally convinced that the Board does not care about our plight. I see little point in individuals taking up the issue with their respectives OPCs; some will win, under goodwill, whilst the majority will be met by the responses experienced by some already. I intend to write to the Chairman - but believe that my effort will fall on deaf ears. Mr Newton must, by now, know of our concern and dissatisfaction with his lack of intervention; consequently, if you cannot spur him into action then I anticipate that I will be equally unsuccessful. Likewise, I'm not going to attend the AGM: I anticipate that the TMC issue would be addressed towards the end of the Meeting when most attendees will be 'losing the will to live' having listened to the routine deliberations! Consequently, I think that the issue will be 'swept under the carpet' by the Board and the majority of attendees - who are not affected by the lack of TMC! I could go on but I won't. Suffice to say that I'm disappointed but not surprised by the apparent lack of commitment by the Board to even discuss the TMC issue. I feel sure that if it was a subject that interested them or affected them directly then we would have difficulty holding them back; however, it is not to be.

To you and Rob, keep up the good work; you're doing what I think that the 'rank and file' members expect - given the circumstances. It is a pity that the Board doesn't follow your examples!

Derek
 
I have been discussing this matter with Rob over email for the last week and are hoping that we may have come up with a way of tackling PGB and the OPCs. I'm sure Rob will update the thread when the time comes but rest assured that something is on the cards. On that note, it is very important to have everyone who is affected registered with Rob.

It would be shameful if this matter is resolved by us and without the involvement of PCGB. Unfortunately, it looks like that is the only way forward.
 
Is the phone and the performance of the TMC definitely excluded from the warranty? Nornally these type of issues can be dealt with via a warranty claim.

Having worked for a car manufacturer I would suggest that the way forward might be get hold of the UK aftersales / warranty manager's contact details and for everyone in turn to give him/her the good news about their 997 issues until he/she and his/her boss get the message. You could equally pick someone with overall responsibility for product or operations.

No doubt the Board will step up to the plate eventually but it seems to me that it is Porsche Head Office (ie Porsche Cars Great Britain) that needs to be the main focus for owners at this stage. The OPC will no doubt be happy to resolve the fault if they are given the technical resources to do it and of course the budget to make it profitable.

Ironically there seems to be a lot of Porsche Euros heading to VW when a few more need to be spent on development, testing and warranty.
[>:]

 
From "20K UP" thread,
If you want outrage they have up dated my sat nav FOC to get TMC working, but now thay want £350ish for a new set of discs to make it work UK!!!!!
Click to expand...
edited by me
This tactic from AFN seems to sum up the attitude of some OPC's. I hope and am confident that my local OPC would not try anything so underhand.
The interesting point here is that AFN seem to have software upgrade available that my OPC doesn't???????????
 
There are 2 stages to the 'upgrade'. First, PCM unit software upgraded by disc from v2.0 to 2.1 or above. This will provide TMC 'capability', but requires licenced disc.... Second stage, use of April 05 or later Navigation DVD with licence, this is the £350 disc which is no real value as the road network is still way out-of-date...

Sunil is right in his earlier post we are trying to establish an alternative approach to this, and we have some legal resources working on a purely voluntary basis (i.e. not paid-for) to establish our position as owners. This is being done on a best-endeavours basis, the guys are doing this in their spare time, so will update ASAP.
 
BTW, my car was in for a replacement PCM (long story). No I don't now have TMC. Anyway, had a 987S as a loan car, which the Mrs has taken a fancy to. So I took home a brochure this evening. Thumbing through, there's no mention of TMC anywhere !! Had a little laugh to myself anyway ! There's no current 997 brochure available (until the launch of the 4's I guess), I wonder what that will say ??
 
Rob,

Thanks again for your, apparently independent, efforts on our behalf (and thanks to anyone else who is contributing). As I have stated before, if you need any assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.
 
Every sympathy with the general outrage and good for you for doing something pro bono etc. I am sure it will help clarify the exact legal options. However, any Manufacturer obviously has in-house legal plus heavy duty solicitors and in my experience they are not the people to deal with if you want a result. Fine if you want to tie up resources and get your own back but probably not if you want something done. There may be PR benefits ie pressure from negative PR but it is not necessary to go legal to do it.

The job of the national sales co's in-house legal in this respect is to protect the co, and they are very good at it. The PR and warranty objectives obviously relate to brand image/ dissemination of info and customer satisfaction respectively.

At the end of the day, and I am willing to be corrected, I think your legal redress is to reject the car if it is not fit for purpose or to dump it at the dealer and notify them that the faulty option - in this case Satnav is unfit for its purpose and demand it either fixed or removed plus a refund of the option cost. The former is obviously daft and the latter not much better as you lose the use of the car while suffering depreciation etc etc.

This brings you back to basically organised sustained complaining directed at key managers in the Manufacturer decision making process. To this you might add targetting automotive press and other media but it seems a shame to do that as it will probably also impact the residuals of all new porsches with sat nav / phones and poss more generally therefore hitting you and other owners in the pocket again..
[:-]
 
Interesting story in November's issue of What Car. A man bought a Volvo S40 2 years ago and had satnav incuded as a £1200 option; although the satnav offered TMC, it only functioned in Europe as it was not yet 'live' in the UK. Earlier this year, when the UK was licensed for TMC, the Volvo owner discovered that his satnav would not provide the facility. He asked his dealer and was told that he'd need to buy an upgrade at £160! Therefore he contacted the What Car Help Desk who spoke to Volvo UK. It seems that although TMC is broadcast FOC elsewhere in Europe, the British Government had sold the rights in the UK! So Volvo had to pay to provide the service. Therefore it charged the owner £160 to update his system and maps. Seems we're not alone with this problem.
 
ORIGINAL: Delbox

It seems that although TMC is broadcast FOC elsewhere in Europe, the British Government had sold the rights in the UK!
Click to expand...
Joined up thinking by the government I see - something that may help ease congestion (that costs the economy millions) is seen as a cash cow by Blair rather than looking at the wider picture....Politicians don't you just love them, almost as much as greedy german car companies who try and screw customers of a £70K+ car....
 
Nearly 3 weeks since the previous post on this issue![:(]

Anyone had success in getting their OPC to install the upgrade and supply the discs - even at a price?[:mad:]

I know that work is going on in the background but someone must know something![8|]

Del
 
Nottingham OPC informed me that the upgrade, software and discs, is now available for the princely sum of £492.16!
 
Hi Jon,

The problems, as I understand it, the software upgrade is pointless without the TMC enabled DVDs. However, you are correct, they will provide the software upgrade 'free'; however, the cynic in me believes that they recoup those costs when you buy the discs! Your price is better than Nottingham - but why should we pay anything?

Del
 
Has anyone been able to borrow a working DVD with tmc from another owner to see if it works in our cars, the reason I am suggesting this is when I had an SL the tmc did not work so I bought just a disc off ebay and tmc then worked so I am wondering if all we relly need is a copy of a up to date dvd from some kindly owner of a current car with working tmc and not a mod from the OPC.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have already tried that, PCM responds with message "incompatible disk inserted" So the next question is will copied later disks work after the "free" upgrade? It's a possible workaround the costs BUT, Porshe have already muted before that non authorised disks will invalidate the warranty. Plus some scaremongering about possible damage to PCM. I suspect that is as real as Iraqi WMD!
The fundamental issue still remains, We don't pay again for what was in the original specifications. The non working TMC and out of date mapping are NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE. If this was happening in the USA a class action through the courts would long ago resolved this.
 
wow, this sounds very fustrating... I hope you guys get something sorted to your satisfaction.

personally, I'm using a tomtom unit.

has a rechargeable battery inside, so no need for power wires all over the place.

costs c.£400 all inc.

has live traffic feed, so i can avoid traffic jams.

I can use it in my other cars.

Best of all, free map upgrades, and I can add all sorts of other useful info / warnings to it, eg speed cameras, supermarkets, petrol stations, pubs with good quality food, etc, etc.

one of those gadgets you don't think you'll need, until you get one.
 
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