And there I was thinking you were really popular and on the phone all night [
]You haven't got a cat called Algy have you?
Sat Nav/TMC
- Thread starter dereksharpuk
- Start date
And there I was thinking you were really popular and on the phone all night [
]You haven't got a cat called Algy have you?
Did I just hear a penny drop!
I am collecting a 987S this coming Wednesday and I've been wading through the thread trying to learn about TMC.
No suprise to me that a solution hasn't been achieved via PCGB. Curious to know why register secretaries are not allowed to communicate with Porsche Cars at Reading according to the PCGB rules. How does this benefit the members of the club. Derek Sharp is stuck in the middle and from my own experiences as the first GT3 register secretary I can say it is very frustrating when all you want to do is the best for the owners/PCGB members.
dereksharpuk
New member
Gary, How I wish it were as easy as that. My OPC, who I respect, tell me that no such upgrade DVD exists. Not yet anyway. Other members confirm this. So I would be delighted to hear from anyone who has managed to obtain such a DVD from their OPC AND get the required software patch.
Latest news is that the upgrades come on all 2006 model year cars, but I think that was already stated earlier in this thread. Reading have the CD ROMS (2No.) and DVD's but as yet no Porsche part number.
The upgrade for earlier cars consists of the 2 CD ROMS to update the software (the OPC'S keep these and re-use them) and the DVD which goes with each system installed. Retail is circa £200.00 for the upgrade (don't quote me on these because it's a 'circa' rather than quoted price). Consider that the price is retail so the OPC's will no doubt be paying less.
It therefore depends on your OPC, your powers of persuasion and maybe your standing with the OPC.
It's actually costing the OPC's more to entertain customers at Brands (Carrera Cup) this weekend than the upgrade would cost them.
Guest
New member
[/quote]
The upgrade for earlier cars consists of the 2 CD ROMS to update the software (the OPC'S keep these and re-use them) and the DVD which goes with each system installed. Retail is circa £200.00 for the upgrade (don't quote me on these because it's a 'circa' rather than quoted price). Consider that the price is retail so the OPC's will no doubt be paying less.
It therefore depends on your OPC, your powers of persuasion and maybe your standing with the OPC.
[/quote]
Why should any of us pay for an upgrade to a system that is advertised as having TMC in the first place?
The upgrade for earlier cars consists of the 2 CD ROMS to update the software (the OPC'S keep these and re-use them) and the DVD which goes with each system installed. Retail is circa £200.00 for the upgrade (don't quote me on these because it's a 'circa' rather than quoted price). Consider that the price is retail so the OPC's will no doubt be paying less.
It therefore depends on your OPC, your powers of persuasion and maybe your standing with the OPC.
[/quote]
Why should any of us pay for an upgrade to a system that is advertised as having TMC in the first place?
[
][][]A point that I and others have made before, including to my local OPC.[][][]
The answer is similar to other questions posed regarding PCM/TMC upgrades (see earlyer posts on this thread).
"Not aware at the moment of PGB/PAG position on this subject, will get back to you"
I think they should be in politics or to be fair maybe they are between a rock and a hard place!
"Not aware at the moment of PGB/PAG position on this subject, will get back to you"
I think they should be in politics or to be fair maybe they are between a rock and a hard place!
Michael Downing
New member
I hate to break the spell, but I have TMC active on my 2004 3 series, and it's rubbish. []
The traffic info is patchy and the re-routing is moronic. And the patchy nature of the traffic info means that you are often re-routed into another jam. After 18 months, I now rarely look at it. []
Now, by all means press for it, and press hard; you were sold it and you should have it. Indeed, I would quite appreciate having it on my 996 PCM2 installation for those reasons, if none other. However, don't get too excited if it does arrive.
]The traffic info is patchy and the re-routing is moronic. And the patchy nature of the traffic info means that you are often re-routed into another jam. After 18 months, I now rarely look at it. [
]Now, by all means press for it, and press hard; you were sold it and you should have it. Indeed, I would quite appreciate having it on my 996 PCM2 installation for those reasons, if none other. However, don't get too excited if it does arrive.
I must confess that for the use it will get from me (Porker is a low mileage toy). The lack of TMC is not an issue. What's at stake here is the principle. I paid good money for it, and I'm damn well going to have it[
][][]
Guest
New member
Sorry to disagree but I have TMC on my 05 X5 and I wouldn't be without it.
Of course some of the data is out of date but you learn to live with that.
As Geoff said there's more to it now than does the system perform. If I offered goods to my clients and then didn't deliver what it said on the box I'd be in deep trouble by now. Seems to me that Porsche are lying to their customers here. Is it a trade descriptions issue? I'm sure someone will confirm either way.
Whilst I'm on the soap box WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT IT? When will someone in PCGB take some serious action rather than chatting about the problem. How long does it take to get a definitive answer?
[
] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Delbox
New member
Because the Board doesn't care! Despite my on-line requests, 'our' Chairman seems too busy to be bothered with such matters; however, from Porsche Post, it appears that he can find time to do other things of little importance to the rank and file of the Club. Why doesn't he champion our cause? There are no other matters across the various threads that merit his attention - yet still he does nothing! Moreover, despite the best efforts of Derek and Rob, the Club's archaic policies are constraining their authority such that they cannot deal direct with PGB! If the Club has a formal relationship with PGB, this is the ideal opportunity to test it and see what benefit, if any, it offers the membership. This issue continues to run yet we have had no formal statement of response from PGB on what is the problem, the intended resolution and the timescales involved. Come on Directors and Chair, support your members who areaffected by this issue, Derek and Rob who represent their views, and get an answer - now! We've waited long enough - and you no longer have the excuse of the Festival taking up your time!
dereksharpuk
New member
Actually, I don't totally agree with Delbox. You will recall that at the Festival, Robin Walker, our Register Director offered to bring this subject up at the next Board meeting. So far I have not heard if this has occured.
On a less positive note, yesterday I received a call from a member telling me that he had received a written reply from Porsche Cars stating that he would not receive an free modification (note I don't say 'upgrade') to his PCM to enable TMC. I asked that he send me a copy of that letter and when I do I'll share the contents with you.
On a less positive note, yesterday I received a call from a member telling me that he had received a written reply from Porsche Cars stating that he would not receive an free modification (note I don't say 'upgrade') to his PCM to enable TMC. I asked that he send me a copy of that letter and when I do I'll share the contents with you.
dereksharpuk
New member
For those of use who have not been able to receive TMC I have to report that when it was operational (in a BMW), I was most impressed. I'm sure, like many computer data facilities, the principle of 'Rubbish in = rubbish out' applies. Thus what you see may well be out of date. Hence one should use that information circumspectly. Though I perhaps have little sympathy for the old addage 'Duff gen is better than no gen', we are wise enough to decide what to do with the information presented.
Delbox
New member
Derek,
I'm grateful for your response; as ever, you have dealt with correspondence on this issue in a most timely manner.
However, notwithstanding Robin Walker's commitment, if the directors were concerned over this issue then it would have been addressed either ex-committee or through an extraordinary meeting - if a routine meeting was not to take place within a short period. If the meeting has taken place then the outcome should be made public; if it hasn't then we deserve to know why - given that the Directors control the relationship with PGB and, hence, are constraining any resolution that you, as Register Secretary, could negotiate.
I, like many others, am becoming ever more frustrated over this issue - and I find appalling the lassitude of the Board and its Chair to become properly involved!
Derek
I'm grateful for your response; as ever, you have dealt with correspondence on this issue in a most timely manner.
However, notwithstanding Robin Walker's commitment, if the directors were concerned over this issue then it would have been addressed either ex-committee or through an extraordinary meeting - if a routine meeting was not to take place within a short period. If the meeting has taken place then the outcome should be made public; if it hasn't then we deserve to know why - given that the Directors control the relationship with PGB and, hence, are constraining any resolution that you, as Register Secretary, could negotiate.
I, like many others, am becoming ever more frustrated over this issue - and I find appalling the lassitude of the Board and its Chair to become properly involved!
Derek
Guys, sorry haven't posted for a while, but I can't access the forum through my work PC so it has to be done at home.
I understand and share the frustrations. I've put in a call to Geoff Turrell today for an update - I missed a call from him yesterday.
However, the reason that progress is slow, I believe, is that there is no compelling driver for an upgrade or a fix. Put yourselves in the shoes of PGB or PAG for a moment. Yes, they have some unhappy clients, with some out-of-date software, but what are the implications of this ?
1. The cars still work - they're not off the road.
2. 20 odd people complaining is significant, but compared to the xx thousand Porsches a year sold in the UK it's not.
3. Customers may walk - buy an AMV8 or something - but 9 out of 10 of us, I would guess, want a Porsche and will buy one anyway.
4. Maybe those without brand loyalty in point 3 above will be back for a 997 turbo or GT3 anyway.
5. TMC works abroad, so technically or legally don't we already have it ?
So in essence, we are asking for a goodwill gesture from PGB/PAG. There is no COMPELLING REASON for upgrading our cars beyond customer satisfaction.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to take a balanced view. I still want the upgrade, I'm still pushing along with Derek, and I will do until we get some action. But remember whilst we may be morally in the right we are asking for goodwill, and from a commercial perspective I can't see a compelling reason for action. They may well do this for us, but it's going to be in their timescales.
I know that off-the-record, the guys at Porsche are disappointed with the sat-nav, maybe even embarassed by the poor out of date maps and TMC licensing problems in the UK, which in turn gives them issues to resolve with their suppliers etc. In fairness to them, our issues were only formalised at the BH Festival, and it's been only a month, during which they have to arrange for the UK launch of the 997 C4's and the Cayman etc. Plus it's September, one of the busiest months for registrations, and it's the end of a quarter, and there has been the Frankfurt show etc.
So, TMC is important to us, and customer satisfaction is important to Porsche. But is TMC as important or urgent as some of the events above ? Derek and I have still got the board invite at the end of October, and we're still talking to PGB, so there is still communication ongoing and it's not over yet ! They haven't said no, they haven't said we are wrong.
And if anyone can give me some more compelling reasons for Porsche to take action please do - we need all the ideas we can get !
I understand and share the frustrations. I've put in a call to Geoff Turrell today for an update - I missed a call from him yesterday.
However, the reason that progress is slow, I believe, is that there is no compelling driver for an upgrade or a fix. Put yourselves in the shoes of PGB or PAG for a moment. Yes, they have some unhappy clients, with some out-of-date software, but what are the implications of this ?
1. The cars still work - they're not off the road.
2. 20 odd people complaining is significant, but compared to the xx thousand Porsches a year sold in the UK it's not.
3. Customers may walk - buy an AMV8 or something - but 9 out of 10 of us, I would guess, want a Porsche and will buy one anyway.
4. Maybe those without brand loyalty in point 3 above will be back for a 997 turbo or GT3 anyway.
5. TMC works abroad, so technically or legally don't we already have it ?
So in essence, we are asking for a goodwill gesture from PGB/PAG. There is no COMPELLING REASON for upgrading our cars beyond customer satisfaction.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to take a balanced view. I still want the upgrade, I'm still pushing along with Derek, and I will do until we get some action. But remember whilst we may be morally in the right we are asking for goodwill, and from a commercial perspective I can't see a compelling reason for action. They may well do this for us, but it's going to be in their timescales.
I know that off-the-record, the guys at Porsche are disappointed with the sat-nav, maybe even embarassed by the poor out of date maps and TMC licensing problems in the UK, which in turn gives them issues to resolve with their suppliers etc. In fairness to them, our issues were only formalised at the BH Festival, and it's been only a month, during which they have to arrange for the UK launch of the 997 C4's and the Cayman etc. Plus it's September, one of the busiest months for registrations, and it's the end of a quarter, and there has been the Frankfurt show etc.
So, TMC is important to us, and customer satisfaction is important to Porsche. But is TMC as important or urgent as some of the events above ? Derek and I have still got the board invite at the end of October, and we're still talking to PGB, so there is still communication ongoing and it's not over yet ! They haven't said no, they haven't said we are wrong.
And if anyone can give me some more compelling reasons for Porsche to take action please do - we need all the ideas we can get !
Delbox
New member
Rob,
You talk great sense - and I can't dispute your logic. I'm disappointed that so few of us have registered our dissatisfaction - but lethargy is to be expected, at least until a positive outcome arises when everyone will want to benefit! Therefore, perhaps PGB would be willing to offer a goodwill gesture to those few of us who have taken the trouble to become involved with this issue - and damn the rest!
Please don't think that I have an 'I'm alright Jack!' attitude - because that's not me at all; but if more members across the various Porsche types affected cannot be bothered to register their concern then perhaps the Club shouldn't be fighting for them! However, I accept that a greater body of opinion will carry more weight. Nevertheless, the issue has been discussed on this forum for many months and links have been placed within the Boxster and other forums; so, if more people were concerned, surely they would have spoken up by now?
Derek
You talk great sense - and I can't dispute your logic. I'm disappointed that so few of us have registered our dissatisfaction - but lethargy is to be expected, at least until a positive outcome arises when everyone will want to benefit! Therefore, perhaps PGB would be willing to offer a goodwill gesture to those few of us who have taken the trouble to become involved with this issue - and damn the rest!
Please don't think that I have an 'I'm alright Jack!' attitude - because that's not me at all; but if more members across the various Porsche types affected cannot be bothered to register their concern then perhaps the Club shouldn't be fighting for them! However, I accept that a greater body of opinion will carry more weight. Nevertheless, the issue has been discussed on this forum for many months and links have been placed within the Boxster and other forums; so, if more people were concerned, surely they would have spoken up by now?
Derek
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