All the OPC's know is that it comes on a shiny disk with a hole in the muddle!
Sat Nav/TMC
- Thread starter dereksharpuk
- Start date
All the OPC's know is that it comes on a shiny disk with a hole in the muddle!
Hi All, brief update. As you know, Derek and I prepared a two page brief forwarded to our Chairman last Monday. Since then this information has been passed informally to PGB and DN has been very proactive in providing me with almost daily updates.
The status now is that Derek and I are meeting with DN and some PGB representatives in an informal capacity on Monday at the Festival. Informal seems to be the way they prefer, and at this stage there is more to be gained from working with people the way they want to work than blazing in demanding X, Y or Z.
Rest assured our goal is working TMC on our cars, and we have been very clear that is what we want to achieve. The database of affected cars is now more than 20, so thank you to all who have contacted me as this really adds weight to our cause. An upgrade to PCM 2.1 may be the answer, but we must let PGB come back to us with their own technical evaluation and suggestions first. We have asked for:
1. Acknowledgement of the problem
2. Explanation
3. Resolution
Things are moving forward. I'll update as soon as I can.
The status now is that Derek and I are meeting with DN and some PGB representatives in an informal capacity on Monday at the Festival. Informal seems to be the way they prefer, and at this stage there is more to be gained from working with people the way they want to work than blazing in demanding X, Y or Z.
Rest assured our goal is working TMC on our cars, and we have been very clear that is what we want to achieve. The database of affected cars is now more than 20, so thank you to all who have contacted me as this really adds weight to our cause. An upgrade to PCM 2.1 may be the answer, but we must let PGB come back to us with their own technical evaluation and suggestions first. We have asked for:
1. Acknowledgement of the problem
2. Explanation
3. Resolution
Things are moving forward. I'll update as soon as I can.
dereksharpuk
New member
Not actually true Jonathan. Insert West Kingsdown (a nearby village), then deselect Guidance, go to POI, select sports facilities (I think that is the one), select Near Destination and Brands will come up!
Guest
New member
I questioned my dealer 18 months ago but with no luck. The service manager in Guildford knew less about TMC than I did and had to call Reading who just weren't interested!
The TMC worked fine through Germany and France when I picked up the car so I know the system does its job. Hopefully those of us who have a PCM2 on slightly older cars won't be forgotten!
dereksharpuk
New member
Just back from the Porsche festival at Brands Hatch where Robert Prince & I had informal friendly meetings with David Newton (Chairman PCGB), Robin Walker (Register Director PCGB), Andy Goss (MD PGB) & Geoff Turrel (General Manager - Margeting PGB). Geoff had little to offer us at present, but was returning to Germany this evening and would discuss the matter further. Robin Walker hoped to bring the problem up at a Club Board meeting in the near future.
The crux of the legal argument (ignoring the moral issues) is that although the 911 glossy brochure clearly states that the navigation module includes dynamic route guidance via TMC. Porsche tell us that this brochure is a world wide publication and thus does not necessarily apply to the UK. I replied that the UK price list clearly states that in the UK the 911 navigation module includes dynamic route calculation. That seems pretty clear to me, even if one ignores the moral issues and the fact that customer satisfaction counts for a lot. Finally, Andy Goss did state that this is not a 'cost issue', thus I assume (perhaps wrongly), that when a fix arrives, we will be offered it at zero cost.
Finally, I did point out to Porsche Cars that OPCs had given Register members wildly varying views of the TMC problem and I suggested that Dealers be appraised of the situation so that they can offer accurate advice to their customers.
The crux of the legal argument (ignoring the moral issues) is that although the 911 glossy brochure clearly states that the navigation module includes dynamic route guidance via TMC. Porsche tell us that this brochure is a world wide publication and thus does not necessarily apply to the UK. I replied that the UK price list clearly states that in the UK the 911 navigation module includes dynamic route calculation. That seems pretty clear to me, even if one ignores the moral issues and the fact that customer satisfaction counts for a lot. Finally, Andy Goss did state that this is not a 'cost issue', thus I assume (perhaps wrongly), that when a fix arrives, we will be offered it at zero cost.
Finally, I did point out to Porsche Cars that OPCs had given Register members wildly varying views of the TMC problem and I suggested that Dealers be appraised of the situation so that they can offer accurate advice to their customers.
Thanks Derek - we'll get there sooner or later with your help! [
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Yes, good work Derek. Let's hope that not all the TMC seeds fall on stoney ground.
Guest
New member
Derek
Many thanks to yourself and Robert for your ongoing efforts. Having been banging on about this here since the 9th January http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=92016 I am pleased that things are moving!
From one perspective I am heartened by the statement that it is "not a question of money" because that implies a F.O.C. repair. But from another perspective, the "Global brochure" bit is bunkum, and I am sure that a legal team would make mincemeat of that. The implication would be that one should therefore expect to sit down for a couple of comfy hours with the salesman to go through the entire brochure and ask "are seats included", "are seatbelts included" etc etc to make sure that there is not some small print to say that those bits might not be included. Imagine the surprise when one of us turns up to collect our 998 in a few years time to be told that the UK model does not actually come supplied with an engine.....
Keep up the good work. I fear that Porsche Cars will just play a smokescreen tactic though. Grrrrrr.
Tim
Many thanks to yourself and Robert for your ongoing efforts. Having been banging on about this here since the 9th January http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=92016 I am pleased that things are moving!
From one perspective I am heartened by the statement that it is "not a question of money" because that implies a F.O.C. repair. But from another perspective, the "Global brochure" bit is bunkum, and I am sure that a legal team would make mincemeat of that. The implication would be that one should therefore expect to sit down for a couple of comfy hours with the salesman to go through the entire brochure and ask "are seats included", "are seatbelts included" etc etc to make sure that there is not some small print to say that those bits might not be included. Imagine the surprise when one of us turns up to collect our 998 in a few years time to be told that the UK model does not actually come supplied with an engine.....
Keep up the good work. I fear that Porsche Cars will just play a smokescreen tactic though. Grrrrrr.
Tim
Delbox
New member
Derek,
I note with interest the issues raised in the 2nd paragraph of your early evening message on 29 Aug. 'Dynamic Routing' relies upon TMC; however, in my car, I can select 'Dynamic Routing' - but I don't (yet) have TMC. If TMC was not intended for the UK then surely 'Dynamic Routing' would be unselectable - if not presented for selection at all?
Derek
I note with interest the issues raised in the 2nd paragraph of your early evening message on 29 Aug. 'Dynamic Routing' relies upon TMC; however, in my car, I can select 'Dynamic Routing' - but I don't (yet) have TMC. If TMC was not intended for the UK then surely 'Dynamic Routing' would be unselectable - if not presented for selection at all?
Derek
Latest update - I've just had a call from Geoff Turrell at Porsche this morning. They're going to come back to early next week with their position on the TMC, age of maps, and the phone issues. Broadly, their thinking is on the lines of TMC - should it have been offered, are they technically/legally obliged to make it work in the UK as it does work overseas and hence it is fitted, maps - an issue with the feed from their supplier and a new release has been ordered, phone - calibration down to a very fine level must be performed - I think Derek Sharp posted on this some time ago - it's not a simple task !
I think this marks the first formal acknowledgement of our concerns, and they understand there are a number of customers whom I'm representing.
I'll keep you posted as soon as I hear.
I think this marks the first formal acknowledgement of our concerns, and they understand there are a number of customers whom I'm representing.
I'll keep you posted as soon as I hear.
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