Turbo GenII Driving Event at Silverstone

[Alex L]

Great day, lots of fun! []

It was a frosty start to the morning but the sunshine soon brought the temperature up to a lofty 3 degC.

Once arrived and checked into the Center we started with a bacon sandwich and a cup of tea whilst watching the previous session participants hammer around the handling circuit. We were then split into 2 groups of 6 and given the tour of the building along with a short briefing.

Then followed 30 mins on the experience center track "˜rides', after which was 30 mins playing with launch control over the back of the Silverstone circuit (not actually on the circuit itself). Then back for a ride in a Panamera Turbo with an instructor (going huge speeds and power-sliding around the handling tracks) followed by a spot of lunch. End to end about 3 hours worth of indulgence.

So I started the day in a manual facelift Turbo with PTV, taking it around the handling circuit with my instructor. The gen2 car is certainly a little tighter than the gen1 Turbo, and a little more eager on the power front - but not a huge leap over the gen1 car, perhaps only a couple of percent. Sadly on the water rides (kick plate and ice hill) you couldn't tell any difference between how tail happy the new car is vs the old one. 15 mins in and we all played musical chairs with the cars; now over to a PDK Turbo.

I was mightily impressed with the 2 modes of Sport and Sport Plus. The Plus mode really holds the revs right up to the limiter, even when you are not accelerating. Another cool PDK trick is you can actually change up gears just by blipping the throttle. The car certainly feels more eager to accelerate with PDK in SPorts Plus and if anything you seem to feel more thrust after it changes up "" I suppose the peak torque is lower in the rev range so this is not that surprising. Forgetting about the gears really lets you concentrate on the balance of the car and you can certainly make faster progress than in the manual.

The real delight of the day though was the launch control session. Completely irrelevant on real world roads but great fun on the track none the less! You put the car into Sports Plus mode, left foot brake, then stamp on the throttle. If you do this too slow then LC won't come up on the steering wheel. When Launch Control appears you let go of the brake and catapult forwards. I have some footage I just uploaded to YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFgkyCkIQss

We also did some slalom's through cones to see the PVT in action (although it felt about the same as a gen1 car to me here). I thought the noise of the car is much improved. Not aftermarket levels of noise but still much more how a supercar should sound. It still doesn't make up for a lack of a proper sports exhaust option though.

So all in all, a 997.2 PDK with flappy-paddles is certainly a car to lust after. I think if you are a 997.1 owner then PDK and the improved 3.0 PCM are very tempting options to upgrade to. I myself would spec all the performance goodies plus lightweight wheels and bucket seats if I were to get the new car. Probably with the new aerokit in blue, such as:

Now you guys won't believe me without some independent testing, but even after all the fun today, I still maintain that my aftermarket mod'ed 997.1 Turbo is superior in almost every respect compared to a 997.2 Turbo (even with PDK). IMHO it has better looking wheels, it goes faster (my 2nd gear G-force is definitely more than PDK 1st gear launches), it sounds better, it handles better (less roll, less squat, sharper steering response, less under-steer, etc), and I think I am just a 'manual transmission in a sportscar' type of a guy. So even if someone gave me a facelift Turbo to garage next to mine, I am sorry to say that it would never get driven. I'd always head straight for the gen1 mod'ed car keys 10/10 times; it's just so much more involving. So the 991 Turbo will be the next car I consider swapping to.

Just to clarify I would personally rate the cars as follows:

997.1 Turbo (tiptronic) = 15/20
997.1 Turbo (manual) = 16/20
997.2 Turbo (manual) = 17/20
997.2 Turbo (PDK) = 18/20
My modified 997.1 Turbo (manual) = 19/20

My car would be 20/20 if it was better looking (I find the rear 1/4 view including the spoiler not pretty at all) and weighed a few hundred kg less.

Great day out though!!! [][][]

 

[tscaptain]

Thanks for that Alex. As a Gen 2 C2S owner , without having tried the "modded" Gen 1 Turbo, I think the Gen 2 Turbo PDK is certainly a car I can "lust" after.[8D] By the time the next model comes out I'll be getting too old![&:]

Edit - the one on the back in Guards looks rather splendid!

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

Come on Alex, we're waiting!![]

Sorry, I have been waiting HOURS for my 30sec video to upload to YouTube. So frustrating! []

 

[Alex L]

Video now uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFgkyCkIQss

 

[robert997]

Well done Alex, cracking write-up. You should consider a part-time job as a blogger or journalist !

I prefer your HRE wheels too, but after spending many days in a PDK Cayman (whilst my own car was in for inevitable repairs) I have to say I'm a PDK convert for all the reasons you describe about maintaining poise and balance and having hands on the wheel at all times.

 

[marlin]

Thanks very much, that is Great review of the day, I am really looking forward to my visit on the 3rd Dec.

 

[Andy LT]

A great write-up of the 997 Turbo Gen II Experience by Alex above. I got a late notice invite for a session on Tue afternoon due to a cancellation. I met up with Alex and his brother for some lunch and then had 2 hours of fun in the afternoon. The basic structure of the Experience is as Alex states: 12 people split into 2 groups of 6, with the groups being split into 2 different sets of activities. One group of 6 were driven anti-clockwise by the instructors around the outer Silverstone road to the Copse tunnel and to the inside of the circuit to a test track laid out where the Club pits get set up for Silverstone Classic and the like. We did the launch controls accels right through where the Ferrari Club car park was set up for the Classic meet this year!

(Later edit: I've just realised that this piece of Silverstone we were using is the 'top' end of the 02/20 approx direction disused runway that sits between Copse and the Club straight -which itself was a old runway!).

The big point of the whole day to NB is that you're jumping from car to car every 5-6 mins, apart from some of the test track work where you get longer in some of the cars. This is done to get you exposure to all the cars with the different options (to experience paddles (Option 840), PTV etc), so it's good to do this, but it's fast and furious, rather than getting consolidation in any particular car set-up (and is great fun overall!).

Like Alex I found launch control to be very much a "˜trick' mode, which perhaps you'd only use to demo a few times to friends, with no "˜real' road use application. Alex is absolutely right on how to engage launch control: into Sport Plus mode, left foot hard on the brake and then stamp on the throttle. If you are too slow with the throttle application then you don't get into launch control mode, but have 5000 rpm levels of torque building against the brakes with both feet pressing hard down and the car sliding forward!

I have to say I thought that the mode has been made available to achieve the best possible 0-60/100 accel times and that my brain was mostly thinking about the torture that the drive train is suffering during the launch. I don't believe many owners with any "˜mechanical sympathy' would subject their own cars to much launch control work if they had it fitted! (I'd love to know what Porsche engineers actually think about the mode).

In comparison with my manual 997 Gen 1 Turbo I can't say that things felt much quicker (apart from the initial launch, of course). The first launches were done up to about 60 against cone markers (you can see them in Alex's YouTube video), followed by max braking, then later runs were up to about 100, followed by max braking. On the way back to the launch control start line there was a coned slalom course and then a "˜swerve' event against a line of cones (simulating a swerve around an obstacle). You can start to get a feel for the stability of PTM and PSM in the slalom work and perhaps get a feel for the PTV option that one of the cars is fitted with. But this car (think it's a blue one!) has the sports bucket seats that holds you more firmly laterally and I felt this gave one the impression of more overall stability, rather than anything else affecting things.

When I did my 997 Gen 1 Turbo experience day 2 years ago at Millbrook (in a tiptronic car) I found the accel work on the long straight there to be more exciting, due to the higher terminal speeds available on the longer straight. Similarly I enjoyed the high-speed bowl driving there and the longer circuit work.

Then it was back to the Experience Centre, a swap of instructors and out onto the test tracks. My recommendation here would be to have a well-prepared mental list of the things you want to try out. We had the chance to try 3 activities: the handling circuit, the ice hill and the kick plate, again jumping from car to car (different ones from used for the launch control work). I started on the handling circuit: this is set up as a country road with varying cambers and is quite tight with little run off available. In both manual and PDK cars I mainly used just 2nd and third gears, changing gears in manual mode in the PDK car using the gear lever rather than the steering wheel gearshift switches, driving both types of cars mainly in sport mode. Perhaps I should have used full auto mode in the PDK cars and played around with sport/sport plus modes more (as Alex managed to do) and maybe switched off PSM, but I found that I was concentrating more with driving lines around the quite tight circuit. My basic error was putting in too many steering inputs; the way the circuit is set up is that if you get to the right part of track then a fixed amount of steering will generally get you to the apex of the turns and smoothly out of them (so it's slow in, fast out!). I then went on the Ice Hill which as is advertised allows you to explore car control with little available grip- this was a really great experience! Next was the kick plate, which again was extremely good value - I found that initially I was using opposite lock to counter the loss of traction and rear end "˜kick', but also was starting to play around with powering out using throttle (and PSM). This is done at 20-25 mph (needs to be 20+ to get the plate to kick), but it would be interesting to try this at faster speeds. Remember to switch the wipers on!

As per the launch control work, you swap around between the various cars available, spending 10-15 mins in each. Again, a very worthwhile and engaging session.

Overall, the time goes very quickly and the chance to experience the cars and activities was extremely good value. I was very impressed with the professionalism of the instructors and their stoicism of what must be some fairly "˜interesting' driving styles from the participants. My recommendation would be to prepare a check list ahead of the day of what you'd like to experiment with on the handling circuit: manual gearbox comparisons vs PDK, PDK auto and "˜manual' work using both the gear lever and steering wheel switches (and also trying the paddles if available). Then take a look at the sport and sport plus modes as well. I'd also like to experiment with disabling PSM, but perhaps initially this should be done somewhere with more room available.

If you have time available rides in the Panamera Turbo and off road in Cayenne are there for the taking. I used some time to get my eyes checked out (I've worn glasses for some time and wanted to chat about the best ways of getting the best possible prescription). It's also worth making time for some caffeine injections whilst you are at the Centre. There's also an area set up where you can take a look at the various interior options, and I found it interesting to chat to other participants to see what they thought of the Gen II 997 Turbo. There's also a car with Bose Surround Sound fitted that you can try out inside the Centre.

997 Gen II Turbo guides and price lists were available in the Centre and all the staff were unfailingly polite and helpful throughout the day. My thanks go to everybody there.

My overall impression: I still prefer the manual gearbox, but I'm sure that the paddle PDK set-up would bear looking at more closely out on the road. I'd also like to learn more about the PSM, PTM and possibly PTV modes, together with sport and sport plus modes, to get a better understanding of how they each work and interact with each other.

A great day out, well done Porsche!

Have fun, everyone...............

Andy L-T

 

[Alex L]

Great to meet you Andy, really glad you enjoyed your day, and many thanks for the great supplement report []

Here's your pic attachment embedded to make it easier to view:

 

[spyderman]

Great write-ups Alex and Andy - thanks for sharing.

From my brief visit there, I reckon a few laps of the Handling Circuit with one of the instructors driving would have been a useful demonstration of the 997's real abilities. I could never take my eyes off the close proximity of the Armco to feel particularly confident!

Alex's comment about the revs used in the Sport Plus mode is interesting - I have to wonder if having the revs so high puts you too far over the torque curve in the Turbo?

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: spyderman
Alex's comment about the revs used in the Sport Plus mode is interesting - I have to wonder if having the revs so high puts you too far over the torque curve in the Turbo?

In the 997.1 Turbo the torque starts dropping after 5000 rpm. I haven't yet seen the power curves for the 997.2 Turbo though.

 

[okellyt]

Alex, Andy

Great write ups.

As previously said we should get you a blog Alex on one of the Porsche magazines - Tuner Junkies Corner or something. You'd do a cracking job.

I would be mortified if the stock Gen 2 TT was any where near as good as your car Alex. Porsche do incremental change so the new car was going to be better but not a massive step, especially not for a mid life model refresh. Your car on the other hand, you have spent significant time researching the various options, deciding what needed improving and then working on it until it was just how you wanted it. Until there is a step change in Porsche Technology for the TT I doubt you will find a better car. Not without buying a car and modifying it to meet your needs.

I thought you were very fair in your assessment of the relative differences. I guess its hard to compare to a stock 997TT.1 as you've had your mods for some time. I know I couldn't tell you what a stock Gen1 C2S feels like to drive. My car is so different now.

When I went on the Gen 2 standard car launch, like you I did get a nagging worry the car would be better than my modified one and it would feel like I wasted the cash on the upgrades. Like you I came away quite satisfied that my personalized car suited me more than the stock next gen car.

Having said that had the credit crunch been kinder to my business I suspect I would be sorely tempted by a Gen 2 TT. If I already had a Gen 1 TT however - I suspect, I'd keep that either stock or modified until the 991/998 comes out.

So Alex - a trip the Car graphic for those carbon buckets, Front Boot lid and doors as well as the Tech art body kit, you know you want to..............[8|]

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: Andy LT

I don't believe many owners with any "˜mechanical sympathy' would subject their own cars to much launch control work if they had it fitted! (I'd love to know what Porsche engineers actually think about the mode).

Andy L-T

I read in an article (which I can't find now!) recently that they (the engineers) tried to test the gearbox/launch control to destruction by repeated launches but eventually got bored and gave up trying.[] It is a party trick though....and a very clever one at that.[8D]

 

[garyw]

Great write up guys...


It doesn't make for good reading to me though.. I wanted the Gen2 Turbo to be crap [] []

Looking forward to my day next year....... In the meantime I'm going to have to drive mine with even more bravery!! [][] and make louder roaring noises when I accelerate []

garyw

 

[blueSL]

You can bet they count the number of Launch Control starts and save it in the ECU somewhere, just to protect themselves if the car drops its cogs all over the road.

Dealer tells me my car is being painted, onto the line on Monday, done by Monday evening then big push to get it here for Christmas or failing that, before the VAT goes back up.

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: blueSL

Dealer tells me my car is being painted, onto the line on Monday, done by Monday evening then big push to get it here for Christmas or failing that, before the VAT goes back up.

Rub it in, why don't you? [] Presumably they won't want it clogging up the factory over Christmas either. I also presume that until it actually lands in the UK there's not much the dealer can do? Santa will have a helluva job getting that down the chimney.

 

[grover]

Did my session at Silverstone yesterday in heavy rain. Very impressed with the car and would happily order one to replace my gen1, it was enough of a difference in the driving experience to do that for 2 more years until a newer model comes out.

But just swapped the family car day before yesterday for a new twin turbo X5 whcih I get in a week so no rushed orders in pre VAT increase and will see how keen my dealer is to get my current car from me in return.

A great day out and for me, paddle shifts all day long personally

 

[Nick_USA]

ORIGINAL: bobfair

We all get used to very high grip levels but you can have a lot of fun going sideways. At this time of year my thoughts turn to the snow and ice of the artic driving centre.

Porsche are usin g Gen 2 Turbos fitted with studded tyres on the Ice Force training this year. Any one doing CAMP 4 or 4S?

Having previously completed Camp4 and Camp4S we are heading to Ivalo for Ice Force at the end of February.

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: grover

Did my session at Silverstone yesterday in heavy rain.

How were the launch control runs in the rain? Were you snaking about a lot?

 

[poprock]

I was at the Monday evening event for a few very lucky non-buyers. Briefly tried out the Gen II GT3RS and the Gen II Turbo in the dry! Although it was pitch dark "¦

Great fun, great cars. I still have a sore neck days later, thanks to the instructor who took me out for some serious playtime in the white, manual, Gen II Turbo.

 

[Monty2]

It was great reading Alex's tech review of the Gen II turbo and Andy's overall impressions of the session, I'm at Silverstone Tuesday in the new GT3 and with Andy's comments will take a few moments to think harder about what I would like to gain from the half day although really looking forward to Turbo Gen II session in late January. Being honest after last week blasting down the autobahns and throwing my Tip turbo around very quiet black forest roads, the turbo will eventually be replaced by another as its so flexible in its comfortable motorway mode and so chuckable around the twisties OR wait until the paddle steering wheel becomes available as an upgrade for the Gen I turbo tip.

Cheers