What do I get for membership?

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: peanut
Nor do I wish to meet at pubs once a month (hate pubs and tee-total)

I understand your reservation Nick, but the 944 get togethers at pubs often don't involve any alcohol (everyone's driving after all) and most of the time is spent tyre kicking in car park with like minded enthusiasts. Great fun []

Somehow I don't think I'll change your mind though...

 

[Ephraim]

I'm watching this discussion with interest, as I'm also a non-member wondering whether it's worth joining.

Whilst I agree that the joining fee is not a fortune, £66 is a lot of money to those of us on low incomes (whilst I do work, being a mid-level civil servant doesn't exactly pay me a king's ransom). Especially when one is trying to gradually work through all the issues with a 21 year old Porsche. Given the choice between fixing something and joining the club, it's actually quite a hard sell to go for the club. I appreciate that there are lots of parts suppliers with whom I could get a discount were I a member, but I let my local independent do the spannering, as I'm neither equipped nor competant, so the only time that I've ever bought from an OPC is this week when I have ordered a £15 replacement key. I also have a daughter impending, and so spare time and money are both at a premium, meaning events and the like are unlikely to feature highly in my priority list.

This forum is a great resource, and one that I use occasionally. Probably only once a week or so. Following barrysmith's 15p a day calculations, that would work out at £7.80 for a year. That would represent very good value, in my opinion. Previous marque clubs that I have been a member of, have asked for £15 a year for their membership and that's included some club stickers and the like, use of a forum and club events (stands at shows, etc). I appreciate that Porsches are a rich man's car, and so the club is priced accordingly, but some of us aren't rich. Honestly, if it cost me £55 to use this forum, well, I'd be forced to not. That'd be a shame.

Hopefully, this won't happen. Hopefully, the forums will continue to be free for us guests to come and visit. The obligation to join the club, though, is never stated anywhere (or at least not that I've seen). I'd not even sensed an expectation that non-members would stump up to join unless they wanted to, until this thread. I don't think that n8ony is necessarily representative of the club when he says "Put simply, pay up and be part of the club like the majority of us or go and play somewhere else !!!", but if he is, then I may have to go and play somewhere else.

I'd like to join the club. I'd like to come to a bunch of events. I'd like to be in a position where I'd make savings year on year on insurance and parts. But, like Oli, I'm not sure that it represents value, and so this discussion is useful in helping me work it out.

In the interests of adding some stuff to the discussion, I'll ask a couple of relevant questions.

With club events (and I'm specifically thinking of things like the Cotswold Rally), assuming that you are a a member, is there an additional cost? Obviously, there are fuel costs, but does it cost more on top?

How many 944 relevant articles are there in the club magazine over the last year's issues? Whilst I like reading about other Porsches, and cars in general, would the magazine represent better value than a mainstream mag?

Anyway, this is a valuable discussion, as long as it remains relatively polite.

cheers,

John

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Ephraim

......Anyway, this is a valuable discussion, as long as it remains relatively polite.......

Indeed.

Aside Paul's monthly 944 musings I can't remember anything specifically for 944's compared to other models, but perhaps we are all to busy tinkering to get around to writing something. [8|]

There is an intention to put past technical articles on the web site for members reference but this is a work in progress at the moment.

While you say you don't do anything on your car you might be surprised how easy some jobs are. It is having the opportunity to talk to people and peer under bonnets that dispels some of the myths of complexity. Equally, being able to talk and look can alert you to a problem where a job may be more complex than otherwise obvious. Members are generally helpful people and often willing to give a hand in times of need.

Some events do have a charge. The Cotswold Rally does but you get entrance to the mid point venue and your picnic lunch in the cost so no one seems to feel hard done by. Events aren't run with the intention of making big profits as the accounts will demonstrate.

We are a Club of diverse members, perhaps the most diverse of any Club. There are those who are quite wealthy and there are many of us who make sacrifices to enjoy our Porsches but, in my experience, the vast majority are very friendly. Those that might be wealthy are no less friendly to 944 owners (or any other owner) than anyone else. Many, many, members have owned 944's, if they don't currently, and will enthuse over them with little or no encouragement.

Regional meeting are often a very cheap night out. You can turn up, buy no more than a glass of orange, and still have a great social evening while learning more about your car.

 

[pauly]

I'm not a member, probably won't be anytime soon, I appreciate the advice that a few of the people on here are prepared to share that's why I come here, but I sense an element of snobbery amongst some posters and I find that very dull.

 

[Ephraim]

ORIGINAL: sc0tty
If you can't afford £60 odd quid a year, then you own the wrong car I'm afraid.

Why? I hadn't realised that membership of the club was compulsory for ownership and enjoyment of a classic (and relatively cheap) sports car.

Simply because I find £60 membership fee for a club that _may_ offer me little in terms of return to be expensive, shouldn't give you the right to tell me what I should or should not drive. To do so reeks of snobbery. I'm glad that you find yourself in a position where you can consider £60 a year so little; I, however, have a young family to support and consider it my duty to not waste my money on something that might not prove worth the cash.

Maybe you should join the Corsa owners club?

And were I to own a Corsa, I might consider doing so. But I would expect that they would be able to prove their value, as well.

Sorry, sc0tty, but your post stinks of a condescending attitude towards those who are less well off than yourself - exactly the kind of stuck-up attitude that gives many people the wrong impression about Porsche drivers.

 

[Ephraim]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

Aside Paul's monthly 944 musings I can't remember anything specifically for 944's compared to other models, but perhaps we are all to busy tinkering to get around to writing something. [8|]

There is an intention to put past technical articles on the web site for members reference but this is a work in progress at the moment.

That would be a very valuable resource, I'd think. And one potentially worth paying for.

While you say you don't do anything on your car you might be surprised how easy some jobs are. It is having the opportunity to talk to people and peer under bonnets that dispels some of the myths of complexity. Equally, being able to talk and look can alert you to a problem where a job may be more complex than otherwise obvious. Members are generally helpful people and often willing to give a hand in times of need.

Never underestimate my ability to mess up even the most simple of jobs! That said, I'd welcome the opportunity to learn more about the mechanics of my baby, even if it never led to more than just an understanding of the latest fault!

Some events do have a charge. The Cotswold Rally does but you get entrance to the mid point venue and your picnic lunch in the cost so no one seems to feel hard done by. Events aren't run with the intention of making big profits as the accounts will demonstrate.

Paying extra isn't necessarily the issue, especially not with food and the like included - it's just an understanding of the ture costs involved that I'm trying to glean. I'm taking the car out on the MK tour in April, which cost me a £40 and includes a chance to drive at Millbrook on the Alpine run and also some time at the Porsche experience centre at Silverstone. I was just wondering how club events compare.

We are a Club of diverse members, perhaps the most diverse of any Club. There are those who are quite wealthy and there are many of us who make sacrifices to enjoy our Porsches but, in my experience, the vast majority are very friendly. Those that might be wealthy are no less friendly to 944 owners (or any other owner) than anyone else. Many, many, members have owned 944's, if they don't currently, and will enthuse over them with little or no encouragement.

Regional meeting are often a very cheap night out. You can turn up, buy no more than a glass of orange, and still have a great social evening while learning more about your car.

You do make a good case. I guess what it really comes down to is whether the regional meetings clash with any of my other commitments (the missus and I do quite a lot with local motor clubs) and how much of a saving the insurance might offer. As I've said, there is unfortunately a bottom line to which i must pay attention, given my financial situation.

 

[John Sims]

John,

I appreciate that £60 might just as well be £6,000 if you haven't got it.

I have always considered my annual subscription (which hasn't gone up for as long as I can remember) to be good value but we can't guarantee you will absolutely get your money back every year in savings.

I believe I have and that being a member of this Club has made Porsche ownership cheaper than it would otherwise have been. I have learnt to do things with a Porsche which I would otherwise have, probably, never contemplated.

I have had some of the best times, the memories of which will stay with me, I hope, forever all due to PCGB.

 

[poprock]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

"¦ we can't guarantee you will absolutely get your money back every year in savings.

I'm really glad someone mentioned this, as I was starting to feel that there was an expectation from club advocates that one will always spend money on your car each year with PCGB affiliated businesses.

I've been a member of both PCGB and TIPEC for three or four years now and have not once used any of my club discounts. They simply haven't been appropriate to anything I've needed to do to/with my car. Where there has been an option for a "˜club discounted' part or service, I've been able to find the same cheaper elsewhere even without discounts applied.

I am a happily paid up PCGB member though, purely for my local region activities. The Region 1 (Scotland South) crowd are a fantastic bunch, who I wouldn't have met any other way.

 

[Guest]

I attended my first R27 club night 2 years ago as a non-member. I was welcomed in no problem... Thats why I joined up. Its a small price to pay to meet up with other like minded enthusiasts. I have yet to witness any snobbishness in PCGB. Anybody I have met within this club dont care if its a Porsche tractor you drive....I went to Silverstone and evryone I met gave us a great welcome... Its going to put me out a bit but hopefully im going to Blenheim Palace this year...

I am well and truly hooked in... I drive 240miles each way (thats 480 miles) on a club night to attend R27 and why... because I want to do it and I enjoy doing it. Ive met some great people within PCGB since I joined. The forum part is a great tool and you lads have really helped me out (I couldnt run the car without the forum) but its a real bonus to meet people face to face.

What have I gained ...? cheap insurance, cheap parts and best of all good friends...! SOLD []

 

[Peter Empson]

I find it interesting to note that apart from the 928 owner mentioned in the first post, there don't seem to be any recent members on this thread who have just cancelled their subscription (please correct me if I'm wrong). To me this suggests that current members are enjoying it and finding it beneficial. Those that have a negative view of the club are arguably either basing their opinion on a much earlier experience (it's definately changed for the better in just the last 12 years or so I've been a member) or beliefs of what the club stands for without foundation.

Just an observation, nothing more than that, I honestly doubt anyone will join because of this thread, after all you've got to want to try it and it's arguably only really worthwhile if you put in some effort to be able to reap the various rewards possible.

In my experience 944 owners are rarely flushed with cash and I'm sure many of us make sacrifices to run our cars (I type this as I wait for the bill for servicing/repairing both cars in the same week []). The fun I get out of them is worth every penny though.

 

[jason]

As usual a huge amount of NON members saying the club has nothing to offer them but they really like this forum.......why???....because all us other mugs who think you should be a PCGB member to utilise the PCGB forum pay our subs each year....which funds the running of this forum.

I honestly think it should be a members only forum or it should have a subscription fee to access. Why should I pay every year just so everyone else can get access to it?? I don't go to regional meetings either or read Porsche Post...but as its a members club I don't expect everything for free. There are plenty of forums in the US that you have to join to be part of....they all work pretty well if you ask me

 

[poprock]

This forum doesn't cost much to run. If it does, PCGB are being fleeced by someone somewhere. It's also one of the club's most visible "˜shop windows', advertising the club to the outside world. It's a benefit to the club as it stands, and a greater benefit for allowing non-members to join in.

An analogy: PCGB pay for a club stand at a car show. Would you ask that non-members were barred from entering the stand and chatting to the members standing there?

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Chaps,

I wrote that last post about 2 hours ago, then had supper and came back to press 'submit' ... there's lots MORE answers here now.

Perhaps PCGB shot it's own fox somewhat by allowing non-members to use their forum? The challenge to that is that the forum is what attracted me to PCGB, and I would probably not have come across the club (let alone considered membership) were it not for this forum.

Keep the answers coming. I am genuinely interested to read them.


Oli.

Ok here's one for you.

Joining a club is like being part of a community. You get out of it what you want and usually the more you put in the more you get out.

You can't differentiate price based on which parts have a value to you.

The forum may be worth £50 a year to one person and nothing to another. Going to regional meets may be worth £50 a year to one person and nothing to another. OPC discounts may be.......etc etc etc etc

I guess the people who do everything get the best 'value' for money are the people that utilise the most of the offerings....but that doesn't mean that you should get one part for free just because you don't use the others. [8|]

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: poprock

This forum doesn't cost much to run. If it does, PCGB are being fleeced by someone somewhere. It's also one of the club's most visible "˜shop windows', advertising the club to the outside world. It's a benefit to the club as it stands, and a greater benefit for allowing non-members to join in.

An analogy: PCGB pay for a club stand at a car show. Would you ask that non-members were barred from entering the stand and chatting to the members standing there?

Crap analogy. Its more like the person who goes into WH Smiths, reads the whole of 911 & Porsche World then leaves without paying.

Hosting costs may be low but there is peoples time and effort that go into keeping it all running.

Do you think PCGB would have a forum or issues of PP if there were no subscription costs then? Advertising certainly doesn't pay for them.

 

[appletonn]

As a PCGB member, I have had more than the annual membership cost back in discounts on parts from my local OPC - just bought a new driver's side door seal and got a 10% (£8) discount, so doesn't take long to mount up!

We must also note however, that many of the constructive and helpful posters on the 944 forum in particular, are non-members (I would pick Oli with his old and slower-than-a-Turbo 944 S2 as a prime example...[]) who are just as friendly and supportive to 'newbies' as any of us 'posh' club members - we risk throwing the old baby out with the bathwater if we are not careful.

Personally I think the £60pa is reasonable as i gain that back in savings on parts and I enjoy some of the events that are organised, primarily the motorsport/trackdat themed stuff, although standing in car parks and talking oily bits is always good fun with or without alcohol - doesn't have to be exclusive though!

That said, if you are an abusive a**e and wish to show other posters just how opinionated and clever you are, you may find Pistonheads is a far better stage for your 'talents'....[8|][]

 

[jason]

Just a view.[]

I don't go on pistonheads much these days it has become plagued with people talking about the values of 996s and slagging off peoples cars on the classifieds[]

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: jason

ORIGINAL: poprock
An analogy: PCGB pay for a club stand at a car show. Would you ask that non-members were barred from entering the stand and chatting to the members standing there?

Crap analogy. Its more like the person who goes into WH Smiths, reads the whole of 911 & Porsche World then leaves without paying.

Do you always go to the restaurant without checking first at the entrance what meals are available and at what price?
Obviously you will never figure out the taste if you don't get in, regardless what others tell you.

PS : I don't mind people reading magazines at WHS and leave without paying, especially when said magazines are littered with advertisements of all sorts.

 

[poprock]

ORIGINAL: jason
Crap analogy. Its more like the person who goes into WH Smiths, reads the whole of 911 & Porsche World then leaves without paying.

Not at all. The PCGB website is closer to that. This forum (a separate entity) is a conversation, not a publication. A community, not a one way broadcast.

ORIGINAL: jason
Hosting costs may be low but there is peoples time and effort that go into keeping it all running.

I think you'll find those people are all club members volunteering their time and expertise"”not paid employees. No expense to the club there.

ORIGINAL: jason
Do you think PCGB would have a forum or issues of PP if there were no subscription costs then? Advertising certainly doesn't pay for them.

Porsche Post costs a fortune. Personally, I think the club's trying to punch way above its weight there and spending more than it should, but that's just my opinion. A lot of members are very happy with it.

This forum shouldn't be thought of a members' benefit. It's not a clubhouse, it's a communication method. It's a bridge between the club and the rest of the world. The club website and to a lesser extent this forum are PCGB's adverts to the world. They are recruitment tools as much as anything else and should probably be considered advertising expenses if anything.

I reckon that a wee bit of informal market research into how many newer club members came to check out the website and forum before joining PCGB would be a revelation to some.

 

[TheFiend]

Why not have a "friend of the PCGB" membership, with reduced benefits, ie no Porsche Post, no discounts, but with the benefit of access to the forums. And have the yearly subscription of say £15-£20 per annum.

I joined PCGB along with my brother who also owns a 944, but probably won't use all the benefits of membership.

I enjoy using many forums as I have various interests, and have found this one to be an excellent and very informative one.

We all have a common interest... keeping our 944s on the road so we can enjoy driving them.... I know that's my intention, and mine is my daily driver...

 

[davidcross]

OPC recently gave me £50 off service bill when I mentioned the club so that means subscription is free on that basis. Couple that with the missus having a great day out at classics at the castle with a picnic and a bottle of fizz whilst I look at some well preserved old bangers and to me it's a win double !