Where have the exotic 944 projects gone???

[sawood12]

John, Are you sure that's not just a non-functioning 944 digital clock?

Like many i've got my own Project in mind but whether or not i'll ever get round to taking the plunge i'm not sure. I'd stick with 2.5ltrs but would go for a custom built turbo and most likely the Vitesse wasted spark and piggy back system. I'm not sure what boost pressure i'd want to run but that decision would ultimately determine what engine mods I would need to carry out, but would likely require a cylinder head rebuilt at the very least. Ideally i'd like to go for the full Motec or Wolf stand alone ems with the coil on ignition but the cost is simply too prohibitive, especially when you start to tot up what i've just described. It's a shame that there isn't a company that would develop their own cylinder head with direct fuel injection. I'd bet that would spawn a whold new generation of tarmac ripping 944's.

Regarding transmission i'm still up for a Torsen style diff but maybe not the Quaiffe one that was discussed recently. There must be other manufacturers out there who offer different options. I'm still convinced that Torsen is the way to go unless you want an out and out track/race car. Power and torque are no good if you can't transmit it to the tarmac.

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: tommo951

ORIGINAL: John Sims

I'm wondering who is going to be the first to fit a multi function digital dash?

Years ago such things were very exotic but now they cost little more than a handful of good quality gauges.

It is a shame the standard dash is so nice or, I am sure, it would have happened ages ago.

John,

You only need to go on Rennlist mate. There are quite a few Stack digital dashboards out in the US of A.

As for my car well decided to do a bit more head work and have a Speedforce Racing Inlet manifold made with extra long runners. I don't agree with the short runner arrangement for the road or even small twisty tracks. You lose too much torque. Hence Turbo Tim is making me one specially to spec. I am also getting a camshaft custom ground to my own specs (lets see if it works) and maybe solid lifters too if I can come to a deal with Dave McGrath (evil944t on Rennlist) He is supplying me the dry sump kit too this winter but thats for next years notes.
On the ancillary side will also be going for the Vitesse wasted spark ignition after courting with the idea of coil on plug like the Cayanne. And a new electronic boost controller Hope to have the car ready within the next few weeks and then off to the rollers of truth!!!
Oh Paul, a bit pedantic of me but it is now a 3.1 litre.........lets see if that 100cc makes any difference
Cheers Guys
Tom

Tom, good to see some of the stuff you're doing. Not entirely dissimilar to mine. I'll be interested where you decide to put the oil tank with the d/sump. It is not so easy with r.h.d. cars that are street registered to find a good location. We have come up with one novel idea but Dave's also working out something now plus he's also made an amazing bracket that will allow you to retain p/s, a/c, stock alt if you wish. Lots of work has gone into it. He CNC's it from these big solid blocks of metal. Very sexy when you see the photos of the procedure.I got him to modify my stock intake as I didn't like what else was available out there but going custom is the way.
Oh, why are you at 3.1? Have you had to go up to first oversize 104.5mm pistons? Is that what cc's it would arrive at with those sized pistons?

 

[Diver944]

Good to hear from you Tom, it had been a bit quiet recently so I was worried things weren't going to plan but that's great news you are only a few weeks away from completion. I'll be interested to see how the custom Speedforce intake works out as I know my intake is very restrictive but I didn't want to fit one that sacrificed low end torque (Not that I intend spending anything more, anytime soon - I'm in driving and maintaining mode [])

Hmmmmm a 3.1, I will have to revise the list. I wonder when we will see the first all out 3.4 with a 16V head running a highish level of boost []

 

[zcacogp]

Back to the original topic ... big 944 projects ... I notice from the Titanic list that Fen is still trying to sell his track-prepped Turbo, and given the spec of that, someone really ought to build a decent lump into it.

So, possibly another one to add to the list.

ETA: A 500 bhp challenge sounds like a great idea! Are you allowed team entries? If so, I'm happy to get a team together, and can offer a smidge over 200 bhp from my S2. If I can get another S2 (another 200 bhp) and something else on my team (perhaps a lux, or even an early 924) then we could break the 500 bhp barrier at a push! Anyone care to join me? Come on, don't be shy ...


Oli.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Back to the original topic ...

Damn! And I was thinking this is one of the least diverse threads we have had in ages. It just goes to show. []

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Good to hear from you Tom, it had been a bit quiet recently so I was worried things weren't going to plan but that's great news you are only a few weeks away from completion. I'll be interested to see how the custom Speedforce intake works out as I know my intake is very restrictive but I didn't want to fit one that sacrificed low end torque (Not that I intend spending anything more, anytime soon - I'm in driving and maintaining mode [])

Hmmmmm a 3.1, I will have to revise the list. I wonder when we will see the first all out 3.4 with a 16V head running a highish level of boost []

Paul, just remind me, is Lil born of a 2.5 block or 3.0L? What size are your pistons? From memory you and Jon went with dry sleeves and JE pistons, do you know what piston to wall clearances were used? Does anyone know what the calculations for capacity would be if using 104.5mm pistons in a 2.5L block?
T.I.A.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

It's a shame that there isn't a company that would develop their own cylinder head with direct fuel injection. I'd bet that would spawn a whold new generation of tarmac ripping 944's.

Better still I did think of looking into designing a direct injection / ignition system in a single package that could be retrofitted to modern 4v engines with the centrally located spark plug. It would need to have a small ignition chamber up around the top of the spark plug thread, and careful engineering to then get the flame propogating nicely down into the combustion chamber (think about how a flame thrower works with a pilot light). Unfortunately this is the sort of thing loads of automotive industry bods have been playing with for years so I haven't as yet come up with any strong patentable ideas, which I would need to move the thing onto someone with the development funding.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

ORIGINAL: tommo951

Oh, why are you at 3.1? Have you had to go up to first oversize 104.5mm pistons? Is that what cc's it would arrive at with those sized pistons?

Hi Patrick,

105.5mm Pistons, I believe it comes out at 3.142cc if I am informed correctly.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Diver944


Hmmmmm a 3.1, I will have to revise the list. I wonder when we will see the first all out 3.4 with a 16V head running a highish level of boost []

If I had a spare £25k hanging round I have the doner car in my garage ready.
The one thing that could hold my project up is finding somebody in UK to do me a deck plate for my block.
If anybody knows anybody drop me a mail. I know some of the development team at Jaguar if it comes to calling in favours but would rather get it commercially done

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

[

Paul, just remind me, is Lil born of a 2.5 block or 3.0L? What size are your pistons? From memory you and Jon went with dry sleeves and JE pistons, do you know what piston to wall clearances were used? Does anyone know what the calculations for capacity would be if using 104.5mm pistons in a 2.5L block?
T.I.A.
[/quote]
I went for .20 clearance on the advice of JE & Perfectbore

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Paul, just remind me, is Lil born of a 2.5 block or 3.0L?

It started out as a 3.0L block (came from a 2.7 Lux which is the same block), but as for the technical info on wet or dry liners and clearances I don't have a clue. To be honest I have no idea what the difference is between a wet and dry liner. It had holes in it to allow coolant to flow through, but it certainly looked dry when I held it in my hand? [&:]

I do know the pistons were 108mm []

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Paul, just remind me, is Lil born of a 2.5 block or 3.0L?

It started out as a 3.0L block (came from a 2.7 Lux which is the same block), but as for the technical info on wet or dry liners and clearances I don't have a clue. To be honest I have no idea what the difference is between a wet and dry liner. It had holes in it to allow coolant to flow through, but it certainly looked dry when I held it in my hand? [&:]

I do know the pistons were 108mm []

think we may need Jon here!! From the pic you use on your avatar on Rennlist Paul they are MIDS (wet) as far as liners and if recall a conversation with Jon they may be Nikasilled???? Jon over to you here mate!!!
108mm that not a piston, thats a dustbin!!!!!!

 

[333pg333]

Tommo, when you say 0.2 what do you mean. You don't mean 0.002mm do you? I hope not as JE's will NOT cope with clearance that low. The spec sheet that JE's issue seems to be a generic one and we got 0.004mm which was way too small. We have since received advice from more than one person very experienced in Darton sleeves and JE pistons that they need something like 0.0075mm which goes against what most people would dream of. JE's are highly expansive pistons although they have 2 blends of alloys available.
Paul, I think that 108mm could be possibly bigger than we can fit into our blocks but I stand to be corrected. 108mm into a 3.0L block would wind up quite a bit larger than 3.2L unless you had some custom crank I suppose? I know you used JE's also. I'd be interested in what clearances Jon set for you as well.
Jon???

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Jon???

Don't expect anything soon - he's on his hols [8D]

 

[Hilux]

To be honest I have no idea what the difference is between a wet and dry liner.

A dry liner is esentially a hard wearing `sleeve` inserted into the block which has water circulating throught it.

A wet liner is inserted into the block as a standalone cylinder (or with contact point support) with water circulating around it.

 

[333pg333]

Dry liner is just that, dry. It generally has no contact with the water cooling system. The wets replace the entire cylinder as the original is bored away completely. Once you go wet there's no going back to Alusil bores.

 

[DivineE]

Going on the above description then Paul's liners are 'wet' liners. Simons car used a hardened surface inserted into the existing cyclinders which I assume then is a dry liner.

Pauls cylinders actually look bigger than the outer rims of the original cylinders! Never mind being able to fit into them so definately inserted and dont know about the calculations but Jon definately said they were 108mm when I spoke to him?

 

[333pg333]

I would like to know a bit more of this in detail. I really thought 106mm was pushing the traditional boundary. If you use a 2.5L block to go out to 3.0L you use 104mm pistons. To go out to 3.2 or even 3.4L I am sure you are using 106mm's pistons. To be using 108's on a 3.0L block makes me think you should arrive at more than Pauls 3.2L but as I said maybe with different rods and crank you could have a different stroke that would arrive at that capacity? I'm sure the wise ones amongst us will clarify this for us.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Tommo, when you say 0.2 what do you mean. You don't mean 0.002mm do you? I hope not as JE's will NOT cope with clearance that low. The spec sheet that JE's issue seems to be a generic one and we got 0.004mm which was way too small. We have since received advice from more than one person very experienced in Darton sleeves and JE pistons that they need something like 0.0075mm which goes against what most people would dream of. JE's are highly expansive pistons although they have 2 blends of alloys available.
Paul, I think that 108mm could be possibly bigger than we can fit into our blocks but I stand to be corrected. 108mm into a 3.0L block would wind up quite a bit larger than 3.2L unless you had some custom crank I suppose? I know you used JE's also. I'd be interested in what clearances Jon set for you as well.
Jon???

Patrick,

You have gor me worried now, are you talking total clearance of 0.004 or 0.004 and 0.004 making 0.008?
I am not using Darton sleeves on mine, I have had the bores Nikasilled and am having a deck plate made trhere are pro's and a couple of cons for MIDS I decided on this one not to go that far.

 

[333pg333]

Tom, funny you should ask the same question I did about how you measure the clearance on a round object. However JE spec'd 0.004mm and this is measured from any side so it doesn't become 0.004mm x 2. With the liners you're using there may be a more compatible expansion rate with the pistons. The Mids are very thick and hard so not much movement from them. When this was coupled with the highly expansive JE's we ran into issues. After a bit of digging around it would seem that 0.0075mm is about where we would go if we were using JE's again. Well my mechanic has just done his re-re-assembly with Wossners at 0.006mm. I am going to be using some of Dave's custom forged pistons which have the same composition as Mahles. He has got his clearances down to 0.0012mm into dry sleeved or stock Alusil block. We are going out to approx. 0.004mm with these in the Mids and will live with a bit of cold startup slap and maybe a bit of premature ring wear at worst. It sure beats piston seizing!
PS If I had my time again I would do many things differently...[][][]