Cayman GT4: Where are we up to now?

[Motorhead]

Hold on chaps..! This is supposed to be a discussion about the GT4 and not a post for airing personal opinions about the merits and demerits of two types of transmission which would better be discussed on an appropriate new posting. Let's just agree to differ and celebrate the fact that Porsche are still offering the choice.....while we still can. So, please confine your comments to the subject in the title. Thanks. Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Jeff, Perhaps a little amuse bouche before normal service is resumed. I blame my parents for my predilection for two pedal motoring. Below is a picture of my first car, which although not showing the controls, I can assure you had only two pedals.

Unfortunately my subsequent motorised journey including riding/driving, sequential motor cycling gear boxes in mid 50's (including a mate's racer with reverse position gear changes), an uncle's Armstrong Siddeley with pre-selector, Dad's Rover with free-wheel (anticipating Porsche PDK coasting), double-declutching my old Ford Pop with no synchro on first (and not much evidence either of it on second), did little to persuade me of an overwhelming benefit of either two or three pedals, although I have to say my most exciting vehicle did not have a gearbox, it had foot brakes, steering by string, body flex to challenge the best driver and was a soapbox special.

 

[Motorhead]

Ha..! Thanks for that Ralph - the pic reminds me of my treasured first 'car', very similar to yours, the picture of which lies somewhere in my archives. Also memories of Ford Pop [a friend still has one], clapped-out A35 van [on which I learnt to drive] and ancient Mini [my first car], all with non-synchro first gears which helped hone my double-declutch and heel-and-toe skills. Back on topic again, although there are a few static pics of the GT4 on test at the 'Ring [ http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/06/porsche-cayman-gt4-spy-photos-2.html ] I've not yet seen any YouTube vids, which is a little bit disappointing at this stage of the development especially if Porsche do plan to take the car racing. Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

I have not seen any on-track GT4 videos either, just this on-road one of the car pictured in your autoguide link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIPC9_jW6I The problem of course with this video is that we hear the noise of the camera car, not the "GT4" being filmed. Recent videos of "normal" Caymans and Boxsters further confuse because some sound normally aspirated whereas others sound like turbos; I was however impressed on one video the way an apparent turbo exited a corner and accelerated past a yellow Seat.

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: dpoynton

ORIGINAL: flat6 IF Porsche only offer 1 transmission on a new car it's because they feel it's not worth developing the other, whichever one it is

They have; the Macan is only available as a PDK version. D

Yes, and the 991 GT3. Just for the record, i'm neither for or against PDK; the topic of what transmission(s) Porsche might offer in the showroom model and race car is actually interesting. Is the GT3 Cup car still using the Mezger engine? If when the engine is finally replaced, do you think they would use PDK in the Cup car or stay with sequential manual, whether for robustness, durability or other reason(s) for or against PDK in a full on race car environment.

 

[clubsport]

On the basis that Porsche obviously wanted or were ok with the car being seen.... it doesn't exactly appear striking, apart from parts bin front brakes, it could be any Cayman with a bodykit? Having seen that the isa's are quite safe for now! It is interesting though they mention 370-400 bhp with PDK. For my use 400-ish is pointless in the S East. Is the true drivers choice the 2.7L, 271bhp, with 6 speed Cayman? If only they could get it below 1300kg though!

 

[Motorhead]

Yes 6, I think that the 991 Cup car still uses the Mezger engine which means that it's at a disadvantage compared with the opposition in that it's not a DFI engine which allows more controlled fuelling. I can't see Porsche using the PDK transmission for a race car - probably too heavy and complex compared with the [paddle operated] sequential 'box they're using currently. Race boxes are very rugged and can be easily stripped to swop gearsets, etc. Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

ORIGINAL: clubsport On the basis that Porsche obviously wanted or were ok with the car being seen.... it doesn't exactly appear striking, apart from parts bin front brakes, it could be any Cayman with a bodykit? Having seen that the isa's are quite safe for now! It is interesting though they mention 370-400 bhp with PDK. For my use 400-ish is pointless in the S East. Is the true drivers choice the 2.7L, 271bhp, with 6 speed Cayman? If only they could get it below 1300kg though!

Valid comments Paul. Other than fitting lightweight seats and door panels and taking out the aircon and radio, I can't see how much weight can be taken out of the 981 unless the doors, bonnet and rear hatch are replaced with lightweight items which wouldn't be acceptable for a road car. Removing carpets and sound deadening treatment isn't appropriate for road use either. Jeff

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: Motorhead Yes 6, I think that the 991 Cup car still uses the Mezger engine which means that it's at a disadvantage compared with the opposition in that it's not a DFI engine which allows more controlled fuelling. I can't see Porsche using the PDK transmission for a race car - probably too heavy and complex compared with the [paddle operated] sequential 'box they're using currently. Race boxes are very rugged and can be easily stripped to swop gearsets, etc. Jeff

Thanks Jeff. That makes sense.

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: Motorhead Hold on chaps..! This is supposed to be a discussion about the GT4 and not a post for airing personal opinions about the merits and demerits of two types of transmission which would better be discussed on an appropriate new posting. Let's just agree to differ and celebrate the fact that Porsche are still offering the choice.....while we still can. So, please confine your comments to the subject in the title. Thanks. Jeff

Nice to see a bit of self-moderation on this thread![] (Just for the record, though, I love PDK, haven't lost the skills required to drive a manual 'box and I play computer driving games.[])

 

[Motorhead]

Some encouraging comments from Wolfgang Hatz, Porsche R&D Board Member and VW Group Head of Engines and Transmissions Development: When will we see the new flat four turbo in a Porsche? We are running [it] in test cars, but we are yet to decide when we will go into production. But downsizing is a fact. It can be fun to drive. Will turbos take over from naturally aspirated engines at Porsche? We will leave the customer a choice. A high-revving, normally aspirated [engine] is still something emotional. Most likely, we will have both options. Will manual gearboxes be available in future models? For ever, I don’t know. But for the next-generation models, we will have a manual. I’m talking out to 2020. Bodes well for us seeing a GT4 with a N/A flat-6 and a manual 'box for a few years yet then. Jeff

 

[clubsport]

Seriously does it? If the 991 GT3 and likely the RS are only available with PDK, what does this tell us about Porches intentions for their apparent top of the range customer road/track cars? I hope a manual is available on the GT4, however based on recent precedent..........

 

[spyderwhite]

and what if they keep building manuals like in the 991 based on a pdk box to save costs?

 

[Motorhead]

Paul, In fairness to Hatz, he didn't specify which cars in the range would have N/A engines and manual gearboxes and there are a lot of cars in the Porsche range [SUVs as well as the sportscars]. By inference, both may not be available in the same car. The manual version of the 7-speed PDK 'box is standard on the 991-series cars with the exception of the GT3 and Turbo, the PDK 'box being a cost option across the range, and it's possible that the PDK 'box available on the Boxster/Cayman could also be adapted for manual operation. Bearing in mind that the flat-4 turbo is destined for the 981.2 Boxster/Cayman and rumour has it that the 991.2 C and CS will have flat-6 turbo engines, it's difficult to imagine anything other than the GT3 [and hopefully the GT4] having a N/A engine, other than perhaps there being a transition period where the Boxster/Cayman range has both engines. Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

It seems the 7 speed manual has been improved in the Carerra GTS according to Andrew Frankel https://twitter.com/andrew_frankel/status/532598731745411072

 

[ralphmusic]

What do people think should be done on the suspension and tyre front? The CS is stable and balanced on fast corners but exhibits understeer in slow corners and oddly also seems to lack rear mechanical grip in mixed conditions. There is very limited camber adjustment on the front and I have heard comments that the rear suspension can benefit from stiffening. Would the front benefit from more camber adjustment and wider wheel/tyre? Could the rear be better tied down plus wider wheel and tyres? I have seen a tracked CS with RS 4.0 tuning vanes at the front but this seems more bling than practical effect. Anyone know about the aero balance and wing levels? TechArt sell a rear wing which (oddly?) they will supply without their front splitter.

 

[spyderman]

ORIGINAL: TrackfanR So, Porsche, when's the new Cayman GT4 Cup starting then?

If I had my way, I'd add it to the Carrera Cup grid next season.

ORIGINAL: TrackfanR The Carrera Cup has run it's course and is a tired old format now.

Think you're basing that on the situation in the UK - grids are not as weedy elsewhere in the world. Chris.

 

[Motorhead]

CAR's spec sounds a bit far-fetched to me Brian - particularly a 450bhp turbo motor approaching GT3 horsepower - but who knows..? Maybe some lightweight panels will make their way into a race spec car. After criticism of the 7-speed manual 'box in the 991, the one installed in the GTS sounds more promising Ralph. Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic What do people think should be done on the suspension and tyre front? The CS is stable and balanced on fast corners but exhibits understeer in slow corners and oddly also seems to lack rear mechanical grip in mixed conditions. There is very limited camber adjustment on the front and I have heard comments that the rear suspension can benefit from stiffening. Would the front benefit from more camber adjustment and wider wheel/tyre? Could the rear be better tied down plus wider wheel and tyres? I have seen a tracked CS with RS 4.0 tuning vanes at the front but this seems more bling than practical effect. Anyone know about the aero balance and wing levels? TechArt sell a rear wing which (oddly?) they will supply without their front splitter.

I'm sure that the CS would benefit from additional camber adjustment front and rear Ralph. Front camber adjustment is limited because it's provided by "play" in the top mount plate location. Something like the two-position top plate used on the GT3 would be helpful as would the adjustable-for-length lower transverse link used on that car. Ditto at the rear where camber adjustment is effected by eccentric bolts on the inner bushes of the lower links. Would a wider front tyre and more negative camber be beneficial? Probably, but reduction in understeer can also be achieved by suitable choice of front and rear ARB stiffness and by the geometry set-up. A disadvantage of the mid-engined layout in the Cayman compared with that of the 911 is that with its rearward weight bias, the latter has superior traction. I can't really see how stiffening the Cayman's rear suspension would provide significantly more mechanical grip. Personally, I wouldn't trust any piece of aftermarket aero kit that hasn't been checked out thoroughly on the car in a wind tunnel to ensure that any increased rear downforce isn't achieved at the expense of stabilty. Jeff

 

[spyderwhite]

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic It seems the 7 speed manual has been improved in the Carerra GTS according to Andrew Frankel https://twitter.com/andrew_frankel/status/532598731745411072

Is this the manual gearbox of the gt4 and future manual porsche models?