Cayman GT4: Where are we up to now?

[ralphmusic]

ORIGINAL: clubsport Assuming there is a manual, It will be interesting to see how it works out in terms of gearing. Will the (assumed) additional power and torque be able to make use of the current 981 manual ratios. Ideally Porsche could go with bespoke gearing for the GT4? In recent years , even going back to the "last of the aircooled" cars, Porsche has used different ratios in selected RS variants. The point being, will the additional cost of engineering suitable ratios in the manual, add too much to the cost of the car..or will it just be a power hike? You can get away with it more in a premium "RS" variant. My impression is the GT4 is still being built to fit in the range of Porsche cars not to top it! Apart from a few forum warriors, I think that most owners would be oblivious to the gearing anyway. I personally know a few Spyder owners and an R driver, who certainly fit that demographic! []

Gearing is an interesting subject, I was trying (but have failed) to put together a video showing Gen 1 PDK v Gen 2 PDK around Goodwood. The trouble I found in making the comparison was that Gen 1 was my old Carerra GTS at 1632kgs (DIN) with 408hp + more torque versus Gen 2 being my Cayman S at 1428kgs (DIN) with 325hp + less torque. In the former you can use the torque whereas the latter you need more revs. So to what extent will the driving technique change if the GT4 has a 3.8L versus a 3.4L engine?

 

[ralphmusic]

And which design do we prefer? This

or this?

 

[Motorhead]

A tricky one Ralph. McLaren can afford to be more adventurous with the P1 owing to its carbon fibre construction and small production numbers and Porsche are notoriously conservative with their designs. Having said that, I still think that the 981 is cracking looking car and Porsche's best design to date. I'd rather like to see a rendering of the GT4 in that P1 colour. Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

Very similar though, cabin, side intake and rear hips. Both just pictures of course but odd that McLaren is positioned as a Turbo competitor yet it looks like a Cayman. Do you think Macca owners will get fed up being asked if they bought it because they couldn't afford a 911? []

 

[spyderwhite]

ORIGINAL: Motorhead Having said that, I still think that the 981 is cracking looking car and Porsche's best design to date. I'd rather like to see a rendering of the GT4 in that P1 colour. Jeff

I think the new 981 is one of Porsches worse looking cars and more VW/Audi inside and out! I for one hope Porsche do away with the terrible looking front and rear pu that's on the 981(Gts included)and that Audi tt rear spoiler and the gt4 is a better looking car!

 

[Motorhead]

ORIGINAL: ralphmusic

ORIGINAL: clubsport Assuming there is a manual, It will be interesting to see how it works out in terms of gearing. Will the (assumed) additional power and torque be able to make use of the current 981 manual ratios. Ideally Porsche could go with bespoke gearing for the GT4? In recent years , even going back to the "last of the aircooled" cars, Porsche has used different ratios in selected RS variants. The point being, will the additional cost of engineering suitable ratios in the manual, add too much to the cost of the car..or will it just be a power hike? You can get away with it more in a premium "RS" variant. My impression is the GT4 is still being built to fit in the range of Porsche cars not to top it! Apart from a few forum warriors, I think that most owners would be oblivious to the gearing anyway. I personally know a few Spyder owners and an R driver, who certainly fit that demographic! []

Gearing is an interesting subject, I was trying (but have failed) to put together a video showing Gen 1 PDK v Gen 2 PDK around Goodwood. The trouble I found in making the comparison was that Gen 1 was my old Carerra GTS at 1632kgs (DIN) with 408hp + more torque versus Gen 2 being my Cayman S at 1428kgs (DIN) with 325hp + less torque. In the former you can use the torque whereas the latter you need more revs. So to what extent will the driving technique change if the GT4 has a 3.8L versus a 3.4L engine?

Chaps, We'll have to wait and see what pops up in the GT4 in terms of power and torque. A 3.8L cf the 3.4L engine would certainly provide more torque to fill any gaps in the gearing but although it's an opportunity to come up with an optimised gearset for the car, I suspect that cost considerations will probably rule that out. However, Porsche may well choose a different final drive ratio from standard depending upon whether they want to focus on sprint or high-speed capablility. Choice of gearing is always a compromise in a production car and the water is muddied by the necessity to match 6-speed manual and 7-speed PDK transmissions to engine performance.....if indeed Porsche do offer the choice. Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

A few more renderings here: http://www.motorward.com/2014/07/latest-porsche-cayman-gt4-renderings-look-almost-real/ http://www.carcrushing.com/crush-porsche-cayman-gt4-renderings/ Jeff

 

[ralphmusic]

The road wheels make quite a difference IMO

 

[Motorhead]

Agreed Ralph. I'm always amazed how a decent set of wheels can transform the appearance of any car [designers take note..!]. Jeff

 

[MrDemon]

ORIGINAL: BigCat I'm sure Porsche took note of your comments about the VIP day and then filed your letter appropriately [8|]

Porsche took note and the next event there were X73 cars to try I will stay in the " minority " though thanks I just came away thinking my R is the far better drivers car for fun end result no sales from me. I liken PDK to driving my home sim and while I choose PDK mode for my sim at home I do race and do chase lap time in sim world. In the real work I just fine a Automatic very easy to drive and offers no fun to me, I guess if people have trouble driving and moving all 4 limbs in sync than a Automatic is the right choice. My GF sister is taking the automatic test because she cannot drive a manual to save her life, which goes to show a 17 year old girl with no skill can drive a auto. Peoples driving goes to shit imo when owning a auto also, the skill they have learnt over the last 10 years is all but forgotten, a shame really. If people think they need PDK to go faster on the road then that's a choice for those types of people. At least a few manufacturer are bucking the trend and offering the real drivers out there a manual choice. to quote Mazda "insisting the inclusion of a manual gear lever is essential in a proper driver's car" And for VW to go back on the all auto polo Gti and now make the 2015 manual this " minority " group of people can still enjoy driving for fun

 

[BigCat]

Mr D you really do have a very biased opinion against the PDK gearbox and do seem to stereotype people who drive autos, it really is rather sad to read this stuff but please continue with what you feel is best for you. Driving a SIM? oh dear enough said.

 

[flat6]

Tedious general statements about what makes someone a real driver. To have to look to references from Mazda and the VW Polo I don't think is going to get any PDK fan to check themselves. Live and let live. Manufacturers will say whatever suits their product. Some might say the GT3 wasn't offered with PDK sooner because it wasn't worth Porsche developing a PDK transmission for the Mezger engine that they were phasing out in a few years. GT3 went DFI and with that, PDK. Porsche could have said a GT3 should be manual when that's all they had for the Mezger GT3 and then say the opposite for the 991 GT3. Don't hang off every word of a manufacturer or motoring journalist (or the words of only those you want to hear). IMHO IF Porsche only offer 1 transmission on a new car it's because they feel it's not worth developing the other, whichever one it is (but they won't tell you that).They're in business to make money and massively increase unit sales. If they thought a massage chair would sell more GT4s they'd offer it as an option. They don't have to be concerned about the resale value of quirkily spec'd cars, just whatever it takes to sell as many new ones as possible. Hass this thread run its course until there's more to talk about and will suffer permanent PDK vs manual hijack. Actually learnt something from Andy Fagan's comments about PDK and Ralph's replies but now it's hijacked by personal preference which can go on ad nauseum. Will there also be a GT4 RS perhaps with additional lightweight features like Plexiglass?

 

[BigCat]

Yes it has been off the main topic so enough said from my point of view.

 

[dpoynton]

ORIGINAL: flat6 IF Porsche only offer 1 transmission on a new car it's because they feel it's not worth developing the other, whichever one it is

They have; the Macan is only available as a PDK version. D

 

[MrDemon]

ORIGINAL: BigCat Mr D you really do have a very biased opinion against the PDK gearbox and do seem to stereotype people who drive autos, it really is rather sad to read this stuff but please continue with what you feel is best for you. Driving a SIM? oh dear enough said.

what is wrong with driving a Sim and racing others around the world may I ask ? All F1 drivers use sims to improve their driving, If you do not even like the idea of a sim you do NOT want to try and improve your skill set. it really is rather sad to read this stuff .... but please continue with what you feel is best for you..... Do you even have your name down on a GT4 ?

 

[Dylan1]

ORIGINAL: MrDemon

ORIGINAL: BigCat Mr D you really do have a very biased opinion against the PDK gearbox and do seem to stereotype people who drive autos, it really is rather sad to read this stuff but please continue with what you feel is best for you. Driving a SIM? oh dear enough said.

what is wrong with driving a Sim and racing others around the world may I ask ? All F1 drivers use sims to improve their driving, If you do not even like the idea of a sim you do NOT want to try and improve your skill set. it really is rather sad to read this stuff .... but please continue with what you feel is best for you..... Do you even have your name down on a GT4 ?

just drop it Mr d this is getting VERY irritating []

 

[MrDemon]

ORIGINAL: dpoynton

ORIGINAL: flat6 IF Porsche only offer 1 transmission on a new car it's because they feel it's not worth developing the other, whichever one it is

They have; the Macan is only available as a PDK version. D

Do you want me to stereotype the Macan driver I do have a skill set for stereotyping It is neither a good car or a good estate, so that leaves yummy mummies who want to get one up on the mums who turn up to school in a Q3/Volvo etc I went to the Macan launch and it is a whole new group of people who were NOT at the Cayman launch, ie chanel handbag brigade with rich husbands to buy the car for them.... You think these buyers want a manual !!!! I think the Husbands turned up in PDK 911's There is no reason to even own a Macan bar badge snobbery. Porsche know the market well.

 

[MrDemon]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

ORIGINAL: MrDemon

ORIGINAL: BigCat Mr D you really do have a very biased opinion against the PDK gearbox and do seem to stereotype people who drive autos, it really is rather sad to read this stuff but please continue with what you feel is best for you. Driving a SIM? oh dear enough said.

what is wrong with driving a Sim and racing others around the world may I ask ? All F1 drivers use sims to improve their driving, If you do not even like the idea of a sim you do NOT want to try and improve your skill set. it really is rather sad to read this stuff .... but please continue with what you feel is best for you..... Do you even have your name down on a GT4 ?

just drop it Mr d this is getting VERY irritating []

If some one calls me sad, you want me to have no come back ? I ask a simple question why driving a sim is bad and throw back his comments back to him, why does that irritate you ? and why even post to say it does ?

 

[ralphmusic]

I feel I am now in a parallel universe, from the PCGB forum last night to waking up on Piston Heads. As an earlier poster offered, I think this thread has sadly run its course having gone down the rat hole of PDK v manual.

 

[dpoynton]

Demon I am not sure why you have posted this latest tirade, this time against the Macan. I simply pointed out that Porsche have a model (maybe the Cayenne too, but I'm not sure) where they only offer an automatic. My post did not ask for, nor require, a reply. I think you need to get back to your computer games. David