Nick USA for new Regional Organiser?

[Peter_Bull]

Hi 'GOOFY'

Rather than use Paul as your intermediary, it would be better if you contacted the Regional Director, Paul Seagrave, directly yourself so that you can express your concerns to him.

I would suggest a phone call followed up by an email outlining your discussion and what you would like as an outcome you would like to see.

I would also cc your reply to the Chairman.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: Peter Bull

Hi 'GOOFY'

Rather than use Paul as your intermediary, it would be better if you contacted the Regional Director, Paul Seagrave, directly yourself so that you can express your concerns to him.

I would suggest a phone call followed up by an email outlining your discussion and what you would like as an outcome you would like to see.

I would also cc your reply to the Chairman.

Indeed. Although some directors regularly read the forums there's no guarantee they see this. A direct contact from everyone with a view is the only way they will be aware of how many people have concerns. It's a bit like contacting your MP rather that just complaining to your mates down the pub! []

 

[cherrington]

Has anyone seen the November edition of Porsche Post yet, notably regional Reports, London Region ?
Can anybodybelieve this guy ?
Nothing has happened for years, we have a concerted and formal request for his removal lodged with the Regional director with a well documented and positive plan for the future and we get this nonesense published in the club magazine.

A picture of two nice people having fun at the clubs dinner, relevance ? Nil

A reference to three fictitious 'active' members on a committee. As all the London 'active' members are desperate to get rid of this guy, I can only suppose his vision of active is having a pulse !!!

A request for two people experienced in organising events and trips , jeepers 20 people answering this description with a track record of delivering 20 to 30 such trips during the last three years want him gone.

A list of hackneyd , continuing and historical events published :
Ace Cafe
Fatboys
Richmond
Brands hatch [ nothing to do with London region]
Christmas curry always organised by Des Sturdee

Give me strength, Ghadafi was less thick skinned than this guy !!!! Sorry, personal and potentially embarrasing, withdrawn unequivically, just go.

 

[garyw]

He can't be that busy, he managed to make it to Germany on the Jolly.... seeing from Ppost...

garyw

 

[Dsmiler]

ORIGINAL: garyw

He can't be that busy, he managed to make it to Germany on the Jolly.... seeing from Ppost...

garyw

He managed that Jolly because he didn't have to organise it.[]

 

[pauljmcnulty]

This thread does seem to be descending back into the realms of being personal and potentially insulting or embarrasing. [&o]

Perhaps it's time to end the thread, and leave it with the statement that if anyone wants to make their feelings known please call, write to or e-mail the Regional Director and Chairman?

 

[cherrington]

Hi
If this thread 'descends into the personal/ insulting' perhaps ypu should read it in full to fully understand the frustrations felt here.
The fully justifiable topic of the thread concerns the non performance of an individual carrying out an official role , so difficult to not be personal don't you think.
This thread will run [ ideally without being insulting ] until the wishes of the majority are heeded
.JC

 

[pauljmcnulty]

This thread will run [ ideally without being insulting ] until the wishes of the majority are heeded

Or, if it gets complaints that it's in breach of the forum rules it might not just get locked, but deleted. It's been flagged up for moderators once already, but if everyone keeps it within the rules it's not a problem.

I have read the whole thing, to be honest I think most things have been said already. The only thing is to make the board aware of the sheer numbers behind the call for change, not just give them the excuse that it's a few "forum moaners". []

 

[Beaky]

ORIGINAL: cherrington

Hi
If this thread 'descends into the personal/ insulting' perhaps ypu should read it in full to fully understand the frustrations felt here.
The fully justifiable topic of the thread concerns the non performance of an individual carrying out an official role , so difficult to not be personal don't you think.
This thread will run [ ideally without being insulting ] until the wishes of the majority are heeded
.JC

+1,
Paul the borderline infringement is purely out of frustration at the situation; secondly it is the only medium by which R20 members can communicate with each other - We all want truth, fairness and transparency

Banning or deleting will only drive this underground, and I don't have to tell you what happens in those situations "" no control what-so-ever!

One can draw parallels with the events that occurred in both Tunisia and Libya, the end result was the same, the methods that achieved it somewhat different "" evolution not revolution please!.

Regards

 

[SambaMav]

Hi,

Just to add out 2p.

Myself and my wife are lucky enough to live in the middle of 2 regions, we spent a year with Surrey where Mandy did a great job, with something special organised almost every month on top of the regular stuff.

We then met Adrian from the London region who invited us to the Ace Cafe (being fans of the Ace and trackdays in common with Adrian) we went and this is where we met Kish and the others, who were most welcoming.

We have been part of this so called splinter group and to do our part we organised a trip to Scotland which was attended by over 10 cars and was a fantastic success.

We have experience of a well run region and a poorly run region. You only have to look at the PP to see how little "offically" goes on in London, practically nothing beyond regular monthly meets. Shocking since this is the most densely populated Porsche region and arguably the one with the most money to spend enjoying their Porsches.

The whole purpose of the club is to support the members, it is not about the board or region organisers it is about the members and there voice has to be recognised not down played. It is our club!

It is time for a change, there is no defense for how R20 has been neglected and with Kish's new role I expect even less time for him to focus on R20. He should follow our Chairmans actions and hand over R20 to the hands of willing, proven and motivated members waiting to take over.

I have nothing against Kish and have supported the events he has organised and wish him well in his new role but this is about what is best for R20.

As Paul suggested copies have been sent to the Chairman and Regional Director.

Stuart & Wendy Atlee

 

[tallmat]

Or, if it gets complaints that it's in breach of the forum rules it might not just get locked, but deleted. It's been flagged up for moderators once already, but if everyone keeps it within the rules it's not a problem.

Paul

I appeal to you and any other moderators not to delete this post.

Having read the whole post you will now understand the depth and strength of feelings amongst those few remaining members loyal to the club within R20.

It is fact that many Porsche owners in London region have abandoned the club. There are threads on both Pistonheads and 911uk proving this.

It is impossible for us to make the case for change unless we highlight the failings that currently exist.

I don't believe anybody here deliberately intends to insult.

Whilst there is a new more formal process of communicating our concerns now in hand, this post is a vivid illustration of the strength of feeling.

Such an abject failure to perform duties should and would be exposed in any workplace, government department or other walk-of-life.

Everyone understands that a volunteer role can conflict with business and personal responsibilities.

The chief cause of frustration here is denial anything is wrong, and refusal to stand aside and let others have their turn.

It's as simple as that.

 

[997GT3_KO]

Whilst I appreciate that its the Moderators' responsibility to keep the peace, I think the deletion of this thread will bring just as bad a taste in one's mouth as the subject matter being discussed... Whilst some of the comments can be seen as "personal", nevertheless, the gist of the subject matter and the overwhelming feeling of frustration is very plain to see... The person in question seems oblivious to the frustration surrounding him, and if he does not command the respect of the majority then HOW will he successfully fulfil the role?

 

[Tanzi]

Criticism of someone's performance in their role is not a personal insult - it is an observation. If the press were not permitted to publish articles criticising a politician's performance without it being deemed 'personal' we would end up like North Korea! Is that what is happening to Porsche Club - where no-one can make any criticsm or observation publically without being ticked off or (if I read some of the EGM postings) threatened.

It is a plain fact that London region is just not working. All this 'complain through the proper channels' stuff just shouldn't be necessary when something is a clear as this. In fact, we shouldn't need to complain at all because it should have been sorted by now anyway!

Perhaps someone might explain to me why the current incumbent of the post wises to remain in the role when he constantly states he does not have time to fulfil it? It baffles me! What wonderful perks do you get as an RO - maybe I should apply - do I get a free car or something!

No doubt I will get ticked off again - but hey - I am passed caring now!!!

 

[carreraboy]

Had several emails which many here would have seen, from past R20 and past Club members who will not renew until there is change ....

I personally wish Kish every success with his role as a Director and hope he finds the time to fulfill this. But please in these

difficult Club times, do the right thing for London. Surely we don't want a fellow Director making the final decision!!!

London Olympics next year .... we should all be enjoying them with our own events etc ....

 

[pauljmcnulty]

No doubt I will get ticked off again - but hey - I am passed caring now!!!

It's all your fault, Tanzi! [][]

Enjoy the karting on the 6th, I've committed to go to the EGM. Guess where I'd rather be?

To all, I appreciate your comments but please put yourself in the moderator's shoes for a second. If there were to be a complaint about this thread we might HAVE to pull it. Not because we want to, or because we don't understand it'll only pop up elsewhere. My personal position as a moderator is that you have to apply the rules despite it sticking in your throat sometimes.

I'm sure you'll all agree that a huge amount of leeway is given, on this thread and plenty of others. That's common-sense from the moderators so all I ask is the same back; you know full well that if an official complaint is received we would have to hit the "delete" button. Then, you have to appeal through the official process; address your appeal to the IT director and the Chairman.......... []

 

[Tanzi]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

No doubt I will get ticked off again - but hey - I am passed caring now!!!

It's all your fault, Tanzi! [][]

Enjoy the karting on the 6th, I've committed to go to the EGM. Guess where I'd rather be?

Ah - a black flag for forum posting! Makes a change from the track!!!!

Shame you're missing the karting! I think a visit to the tyre-wall courtesy of Basher Yalden sounds better than the warzone that is the EGM I must say.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I think a visit to the tyre-wall courtesy of Basher Yalden sounds better than the warzone that is the EGM I must say.

No fair! John isn't on the forum so he can't stick up for himself.

This might be the second race in a row he doesn't hit me, being the second race in a row I've not been on track! [][]

 

[carreraboy]

Delete any offending posts Paul, unless you are saying the whole thread of nearly 150 posts not ONE in support of the RO is offending and they all should go?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Delete any offending posts Paul, unless you are saying the whole thread of nearly 150 posts not ONE in support of the RO is offending and they all should go?

Personally I don't want to delete anything. If it happens, it's only one of the moderators acting after a complaint. Post 49 here does ask to keep personal comments out of it. [&o]

That complaint hasn't been raised yet. Just please accept that it might well do, if things get too far outside the forum guidelines. Don't shoot the messenger, just read his message and consider it! [&:]

 

[eastendr]

Paul, we do what we do through frustration, not malice.

There is not one person (that I know of) that has anything against Kish, just his proven and consistent performance as an effective RO for what should be an extremely active region.

I am willing to offer that it may be due to his considerable work commitments in his very high profile job (Facebook entries confirm this) he may be unable to devote the necessary time to the region. With so many active members, many with the necessary skills and time to devote to getting the region back on track, it is unfortunate that patience has run out. We have members with very active input to R20 and these people have put a lot of time and effort in to organising many sucessful events in the vacuum of PCGB (RO) stewardship.

It is time for things to move on and the board to make the decision if Kish won't.

Did I not read in today's porsche post that our current chairman steepd down from his RO role, held for 7 years, when he too became a board Director as he thought the roles were incompatible (couldn't fulfill both roles concurrently)?

Kish would be very welcome to enjoy all the benefits of a rejuvinated R20 as an active member (maybe even get the Boxster back on the road instead of the prius or Carrera GTS).

We already have one area of the forum involved in active protest, locking or deleting this thread, our common means of communication, might add more fuel to that particular fire.

I can say that all I have spoken to continue to fully support you under the current difficult circumstances trying to hold back the tide like Like King Canute! However every river will eventually burst it's banks unless pressure is vented...